For 40 Years, This Russian Family Was Cut Off From All Human Contact
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People aren't meant to live alone. I know there have always been the ascetics, eremitics and anchorites, but this was simple fear and oppression.
Such a shame; wonderful the human endurance, but still, it would make you weep.
M
Such a shame; wonderful the human endurance, but still, it would make you weep.
M
Yes it is well-known story Отшельники Лыковы "Таёжный Тупик"
You can read in English "Lost in the Taiga"
Or in German Wassili Peskow: Die Vergessenen der Taiga : die unglaubliche Geschichte einer sibirischen Familie jenseits der Zivilisation. Goldmann, München 1996, ISBN 3-442-12637-1.
You can read in English "Lost in the Taiga"
Or in German Wassili Peskow: Die Vergessenen der Taiga : die unglaubliche Geschichte einer sibirischen Familie jenseits der Zivilisation. Goldmann, München 1996, ISBN 3-442-12637-1.
Yes original title from Russian "Таёжный Тупик" "Taiga Deadlock"
Indeed one of them is still there - by choice
...and why not? I'm not at all convinced that humans are "meant" to live in large colonies.I think different people like different types of lives - I don't think that one answer suits everyone - or that people who choose to live in isolation (relative or absolute) are "wrong".
These were perhaps more isolated than many, but, even when they knew they could return to a more populated area, they chose not to. I'm glad they have the choice, and the freedom, to live as they chose.
I didn't say large colonies, but human genetics alone clearly indicate huge problems when there is a limited and inbreeding population.
Social animals means different things to different people. You can have society with just your family and those people you see or contact through the seasonal round; that's very different from one family or one individual effectively stranded with no contact with anyone else.
As I said, those in the grip of religious fervour might choose that route, and the occasional aesthetic, but it's by and large not really a good thing.
Pratchett has a quote on it, doesn't he ?
M
Social animals means different things to different people. You can have society with just your family and those people you see or contact through the seasonal round; that's very different from one family or one individual effectively stranded with no contact with anyone else.
As I said, those in the grip of religious fervour might choose that route, and the occasional aesthetic, but it's by and large not really a good thing.
Pratchett has a quote on it, doesn't he ?
M
Look up the Hmong in Laos many if not most are still on the run, hiding in the jungles of Laos, persecuted and killed because they supported the Americans and where promised a passage out if it went wrong, it went big time wrong and they still suffer. Those that get into Thailand are exploited by the Thais, a year or two back a large group were thrown back into Laos were their fate is unknown, the sick part was they had UN refugee I'd cards meaning they were protected. 35 years now so at least 2 generations still hiding
Yes and it was a lot of discussion about this story.
This family was not like Robinzon, they retained language, culture, but do not make any progress. (may be some close situation to Amish community.)
Perhaps problem in this story that old man was like "captain Ahab" his family do not have really choice. No children, no future, religious fanaticism.
This family was not like Robinzon, they retained language, culture, but do not make any progress. (may be some close situation to Amish community.)
Perhaps problem in this story that old man was like "captain Ahab" his family do not have really choice. No children, no future, religious fanaticism.
<shrug>
These people didn't interbreed - they just chose to live apart as a family
Even when presented with options, they chose to carry on that way - presumably because they preferred it.
Of course people need genetic diversity - but that can happen even if families live far apart almost all the time. Total isolation wouldn't suit me - but neither would living in a town. I respect both as equally valid options for those that prefer them though.
These people didn't interbreed - they just chose to live apart as a family
Even when presented with options, they chose to carry on that way - presumably because they preferred it.
Of course people need genetic diversity - but that can happen even if families live far apart almost all the time. Total isolation wouldn't suit me - but neither would living in a town. I respect both as equally valid options for those that prefer them though.
I made no comment about them interbreeding. I said that for 'people' to live alone is not a good idea.
There's no issue about having an extended family or tribal or clan network, or village mentality come to that. Just that individuals do not do so well alone.
This family was persecuted and the patriarch took them into the back of beyond to keep them safe and faithful, and in the end it was a Darwin award with a great deal of pathos attached.
What a waste
M
There's no issue about having an extended family or tribal or clan network, or village mentality come to that. Just that individuals do not do so well alone.
This family was persecuted and the patriarch took them into the back of beyond to keep them safe and faithful, and in the end it was a Darwin award with a great deal of pathos attached.
What a waste
M
Not sure they felt they had a choice in the beginning.
And the younger children that were born in Tagia never knew anything different, so going to have be resistant to change when in their later years.
A bit of googling on Agafya Lykova seems to reveal she wrote a letter in 2011 asking for help.
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/363063/Appeal%20from%20Agafia%20Lykova%20of%20L
And the younger children that were born in Tagia never knew anything different, so going to have be resistant to change when in their later years.
A bit of googling on Agafya Lykova seems to reveal she wrote a letter in 2011 asking for help.
http://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/363063/Appeal%20from%20Agafia%20Lykova%20of%20L
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Thanks for the link. Have read the article and watched all three utube videos. That's some survival story - escape from death and persecution, then living on as little as they did for forty years is just astounding.
Not sure about the arguments above re choices to live away from society, except to say that running away from their persecutors was evidently the right survival choice in the first place. You can't face down (a society of) gun toting fascists, or whatever, and in my view you'd have to be crazy or a fanatic to do so.
Its not surprising that they craved salt so much; but I wonder if it caused the kidney failure of the two who died a few days apart, given that they may never have had added salt in their diet. Just an idea.
Not sure about the arguments above re choices to live away from society, except to say that running away from their persecutors was evidently the right survival choice in the first place. You can't face down (a society of) gun toting fascists, or whatever, and in my view you'd have to be crazy or a fanatic to do so.
Its not surprising that they craved salt so much; but I wonder if it caused the kidney failure of the two who died a few days apart, given that they may never have had added salt in their diet. Just an idea.
The original group who found them reported back to the regional govt. It turns out that there were still living relatives in the villages that the family had fled from.
They could have gone home, or at least had contact with family, had they chosen to keep in touch.
The comment that the father was a dominant patriarch seems to be at the root of the family staying away. Then again, apparantly his brother was shot right beside him, so trauma would play on his mind too.
M
They could have gone home, or at least had contact with family, had they chosen to keep in touch.
The comment that the father was a dominant patriarch seems to be at the root of the family staying away. Then again, apparantly his brother was shot right beside him, so trauma would play on his mind too.
M
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