Flintlocks

[TeeDee]

Watching The Revenant once more.

For those blackpowder enthusiasts , what sort of range were the rifles and pistols ballistically predictable out to for the purposes of hunting?

In short what was a typical hunting range for these smoothbore rifles with what I assume was a fairly rudimentary blackpowder mixture?

 

[Broch]

Watching The Revenant once more.

For those blackpowder enthusiasts , what sort of range were the rifles and pistols ballistically predictable out to for the purposes of hunting?

In short what was a typical hunting range for these smoothbore rifles with what I assume was a fairly rudimentary blackpowder mixture?

Smoothbore muskets - effect to about 100m I believe.

Rifled flintlocks (like the Kentucky) - 250m max

But, I suspect, there was/is a wide range.

 

[gra_farmer]

You also need to make sure you hit what want, and square on.....as it will be about 5 mins before the smoke clears.

 

[Broch]

In the butts at longer ranges, you could hear the black powder go off then, a while later, the shot would hit the canvas with a thud. You literally would have time to duck out of the way - to hunt with a flintlock would have been difficult.

 

[TeeDee]

In the butts at longer ranges, you could hear the black powder go off then, a while later, the shot would hit the canvas with a thud. You literally would have time to duck out of the way - to hunt with a flintlock would have been difficult.

That was the next part of the question , how much power would there be. Guess i need to go do some research and a deep dive.

 

[Mesquite]

But, I suspect, there was/is a wide range.

Rifleman Plunkett used a Baker Rifle to shoot General Colbert at approximately 600 yards and then promptly shot his Aide de Camp when he went to aid the general which shows he was a damn fine marksman. Apparently he did the shot whilst lying on his back with the rifle propped on his leg.

 

[gra_farmer]

That was the next part of the question , how much power would there be. Guess i need to go do some research and a deep dive.

I used to shoot black powder rifles and shotguns, the amount of powder is directly related to the weight of the shot or lead ball, and the design of the gun....but I used to play with the amounts around those values and you get a feel for it.

Now as for hunting, that was my main use, and you had to be a good shot....but no matter how good aim you are, you get the odd miss fire or duff flint, and your quarry was gone.

 

[Kav]

Is this flintlock exclusive, or percussion cap black powder?
Some rifles IE the Hawken had sophisticated progressive twist rifling and double set triggers. Bullets can be simple ball, or later conical such as the dreaded French Minie’ with hollow base for expansion in bore for greater accuracy and speed of loading.
In the off grid ( such as it was) world of explorers, trappers and traders powder was precious and rationed to the Minimal charge capable of taking game.
Wild game was not as skittish with limited contact. The progressive cartridges of the C Sharps Buffalo rifle a classic example. The early chambering included a .50-65 and progressed in range as herds thinned and avoided hunters. The final .45-120 can still outperform many smokeless loads. I ‘smoked’
A friend using my own .300 Holland and Holland with one.
These days, most deer in the USA are poached by marijuana grows hidden in national forests. Deer love eating pot and the local population targeted by growers with semi auto assault weapons ,
Messed with two once.

 

[Broch]

Rifleman Plunkett used a Baker Rifle to shoot General Colbert at approximately 600 yards and then promptly shot his Aide de Camp when he went to aid the general which shows he was a damn fine marksman. Apparently he did the shot whilst lying on his back with the rifle propped on his leg.

Maybe

 

[Dave Budd]

I know nothing of these modern boomsticks, but i would imagine hunting with blackpowder would be more akin to hunting with a bow than a modern gun. Ie you hide and shoot from very close range!

 

[slowworm]

I would tend to look at the question the other way around. With less people about and more natural habitat would you need to shoot a great distance? Even in my patches of woodland I often get well within 50m of a deer and would in all likelihood shoot a modern rifle only at such ranges. My smoothbore percussion shotgun will shoot a patched ball fairly accurately at 50m. I also wonder about other factors, would a patched ball leave a good blood trail and if not would that mean you wouldn't wish to hunt at too long a range?

 

[Kav]

People have this ignorant arrogance to the past. The great lithic monuments had to be made with alien help mindset. Old technologies WORK. The RN navigated the world because mechanical, analog chronometers
were created. The critical burn time for Apollo’s re entry done with a wrist model.
Idiot asked why my SMLE ONLY carried 10 rounds, ignorant of the Germans thinking themselves under machine gun fire inWW 1

 

[Robbi]

People have this ignorant arrogance to the past. The great lithic monuments had to be made with alien help mindset. Old technologies WORK. The RN navigated the world because mechanical, analog chronometers
were created. The critical burn time for Apollo’s re entry done with a wrist model.
Idiot asked why my SMLE ONLY carried 10 rounds, ignorant of the Germans thinking themselves under machine gun fire inWW 1

Yaaaa.!! Go Kav.!!!!

 

[TeeDee]

I know nothing of these modern boomsticks, but i would imagine hunting with blackpowder would be more akin to hunting with a bow than a modern gun. Ie you hide and shoot from very close range!

I did/do wonder if this maybe the case. But then again we would have to look at Firearms and Bows of the period side-by-side.

Whilst Flintlocks 'maybe' had power behind them I would imagine the projectiles actual flight path would be somewhat , erratic meaning repeat accuracy would be diminished.

A lucky shot does not make it a replicable shot.

 

[Ystranc]

I would like to recommend a book called The Englishman and the rifle by Col Lord Cottesmore, CB.
It gives a lot of information about marksmanship circa1850 onwards but draws on Ezekiel Baker’s book on Rifle practice dating from 1800.
Another one to search for is Scloppetaria, Beaufoy 1808.
these books all teach the accepted marksmanship techniques of their era.

 

[Ystranc]

I would like to recommend a book called The Englishman and the rifle by Col Lord Cottesmore, CB.
It gives a lot of information about marksmanship circa1850 onwards but draws on Ezekiel Baker’s book on Rifle practice dating from 1800.
Another one to search for is Scloppetaria, Beaufoy 1808.
these books all teach the accepted marksmanship techniques of their era.

Another book I’d recommend on the subject is The gun and it’s development by W W Greener but that one can be a bit pricey and hard to find.

 

[TeeDee]

 

[JB101]

A lot would depend upon if the 'gun' was smoothbore (& could be used as a shotgun as well) or rifled,the latter being the more accurate (upto 200yds the former say 50yds).

Dont forget the flintlock rifle was the major smallarm of the Napoeonic wars and before.


Typically squirell rifles (small caliber hunting rifles) were arround .36", for bigger game the ball size went up to .45 or .50"
The later developed (percusion capped or self contained cartridge ) black powder rifle is good and accurate out to 1000yds

 

[TeeDee]

A lot would depend upon if the 'gun' was smoothbore (& could be used as a shotgun as well) or rifled,the latter being the more accurate (upto 200yds the former say 50yds).

Dont forget the flitlock rifle was the major smallarm of the Napoeonic wars and before.


Typically squirell rifles (small caliber hunting rifles) were arround .36", for bigger game the ball size went up to .45 or .50"
The later developed (percusion capped or self contained cartridge ) black powder rifle is good and accurate out to 1000yds

True - but Skirmish lines do not make accuracy - I can't think of anything more , frankly depressing , then the notion that was the tactical peak of that period. The notion of section fire is still relevant but I initially was asking the questions for more the hunting aspects.

 

[JB101]

True - but Skirmish lines do not make accuracy - I can't think of anything more , frankly depressing , then the notion that was the tactical peak of that period. The notion of section fire is still relevant but I initially was asking the questions for more the hunting aspects.

In main the 'Armies' of the time used a smooth bore musket approx 50cal & volley fired into the opposing ranks.
At this time the rifle regiment was introduced who were equipped with rifles and acted as skirmishers and scouts & to take out targets of opportunity (officers/sergants).
From a hunting perspective the flintlock was a success. Northern America was colonised with these weapons.
Air rifles were occasionly used as evidenced in the books about the Lewis & Clarke expedition.
Lead balls were/could be recovered from carcasses and recast ,flints could possibly be found and knapped in situ if required but did not deteriorate in storage (unless damaged/ broken) The limiting factor was the gunpowder as once run out or wet the rifle is useless other than acting as a club.