Fallkniven A1 or S1?
- Thread starter Scrimmy
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I've tried both, and my preference would none of the two. Both are way to bulky and clumsy for the intended tasks. For the money you could do way better then those two. The thick blades cut incredably bad, the handles are to slim and causes fatigue in the hands during longer work, the sheaths are ugly and ill designed (not deep enough so the knife can pivot if the button comes loose). I hate the steel. Seriously, why would anybody need 5 or 6 mm blade? Get an axe-knife combo instead.
Quote from their website: "S1 The Forest Knife is probably the best hunting and fishing knife ever made", yeah right! Ever tried taking out a moose with a 5 mm blade? It's so clumsy you have no idea what your cutting in there. Filleting a fish with a 5 mm blade? Sure. If it's so good how come I never ever saw a fisherman or stalker using one? How come sport fishers prefers fillet knives or small thin bladed knives? How come virtually all the shooters I've hunted with prefer short broad bladed knives if the 5 mm is the best hunting knife made? Beats me, really...
Fällkniven is all about posing, a real sh1tty brand IMHO. The only ones I've seen it has been drafted insecure guys in their early twenties, who live in this fiction world where a knife has to be able to cut concrete and still be shaving sharp afterwards. Go buy a good knife and practice your knifeskills instead. Mors Kochansky still teaches people to survive with moras...
Quote from their website: "S1 The Forest Knife is probably the best hunting and fishing knife ever made", yeah right! Ever tried taking out a moose with a 5 mm blade? It's so clumsy you have no idea what your cutting in there. Filleting a fish with a 5 mm blade? Sure. If it's so good how come I never ever saw a fisherman or stalker using one? How come sport fishers prefers fillet knives or small thin bladed knives? How come virtually all the shooters I've hunted with prefer short broad bladed knives if the 5 mm is the best hunting knife made? Beats me, really...
Fällkniven is all about posing, a real sh1tty brand IMHO. The only ones I've seen it has been drafted insecure guys in their early twenties, who live in this fiction world where a knife has to be able to cut concrete and still be shaving sharp afterwards. Go buy a good knife and practice your knifeskills instead. Mors Kochansky still teaches people to survive with moras...
Although quite extreme I tend to agree (in general) with Big Swede in his views. 5mm is too thick to be practical in most situations. I personally find 4mm a bit too much for decent cutting (but it depends on depth of blade aswell). 3.5mm is probably my 'ideal' thickness. The handle is also 'fleshless' and can be hard on the hands when working with them for a long time. They are both quite long aswell for intricate, controlled work. Maybe okay for hacking. The steel is an interesting one although I have found it challenging to sharpen. Not great as bushcraft knives IMHO.
Although the S1 would not be my choice for a bushcraft knife I would not agree wholeheartedly that the whole brand is carp though. I just have not found a place or a situation where I would have preference for an S1 / A1 - but that does not mean such a circumstance does not exist.
Although the S1 would not be my choice for a bushcraft knife I would not agree wholeheartedly that the whole brand is carp though. I just have not found a place or a situation where I would have preference for an S1 / A1 - but that does not mean such a circumstance does not exist.
If you consider what you get for your money I think it is few knife companies that give good value actually. In the case of fällkniven you get cnc-cut steel, that is sharpened in an automated process line, completely soulless, the whole process is out sourced to factory in Japan, the sheaths are made in spain, the handles probably somewhere else. In no stage is there any level of skill required (well, maybe the leather sheaths). If you consider the actual costs to make the knife, and what you pay, I'd say it is not good value for the money. And it's the same with all their knifes. Some wise guy up in sweden designs a 'Cool' knife, sends the CAD/CAM sketches over to japan, gets a sample, bam! new production. The sorry thing in this whole business is that some 1diot actually buys the myth about the unbreakable ultimate hunting-survivalist knife, which will take his bush skills to a whole new level, while in the real world he will be stuck with a sharpened crowbar, that will ruin his fish, make him make several wrong cuts in his venison, probably ruining the meat, and not teach him to be careful with tools (as they are of vital importance in the wild). I wish that those same guys would stop and think about what they're doing. Go get a real tool instead.
And now for something completely different: http://www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/s1_f1_wm.html
Here a couple of facts & testing.
Here a couple of facts & testing.
This is clearly a subject you feel quite strongly about, and from your past posts it clear that you know your stuff, which manufactures/makers should Scimmy be looking at?
BTW I do own an F1, which I purchased to have with me when I was out and about on the water, I haven't ruined any fish with it yet, but a proper fish knife would clearly be a better choice of tool for that task. And I agree, the sheath (the plastic one) is really poor.
No, I don't feel particularly strongly about this, but I'm so tired of these companies trying to sell really cheap knifes really expensive by claiming that they are hi-quality-ultra-designed-ultimate-piece-of-kit, when in reality they are just serial produced machined steel parts. How much does the material price differ between O1 and VG10? Well for the weight of one knife, not that much. Not so much as to validate the absurd difference in retail price. If everybody start to analyse what you get for your money, I think we would not have so many strange 'bushy' products, neither would we buy stuff we don't really need, and we wouldn't get disappointed so often.
As for knife recomandations, it's hard with so many good brands to choose between. If I lived in the UK I would first and foremost go for a local knifemaker, Mike Spain seems carry a reasonable priced woodlore clone, I think I would maybe have gotten one of those but in 2.5 mm O1. The guy (stuart_m maybe, no time to search) who made British Reds beater knife could probably knock up something useful (although thinner blade for me). Bison bushcraft seem to know their knifes too. I have no connection with anyone of these, not even as a satisfied customer, but I like their stuff (from the totally biased interface of the interweb and some jpegs, but hey, I'm only human!
).
If you want more of a budget choice and still want a chopper or more heavy duty cutting I still think a axe-knife combo is hard to beat, it doesn't have to be GB, you know.. Otherwise I think strømeng does brilliant choppers that has a design that has evolved thrugh hundreds of years of use in the northern forrests of scandinavia. Isakki has brilliant knives. Brusletto, Helle, Karesuando, solingen, Bark river, Mora (of course..), Svord and Eka are other knifemakers I think are good value. Companies I think are really bogus are cold steel, fällkniven, strider, spyderco, ontario spec-plus (no experience of their other production lines..). I have not tried any, but I really dislike the wiseman tool (I know some members swear by it), I can't stand the fact that he actually encourages digging with the bloody thing. If I were in a survival situation with only one tool/knife, I sure as h**l wouldn't dig with it, but hey, maybe that's just me?
If you happen to disagree with me, you are wrong.
Everybody has the right to their opinion, this is mine.
As for knife recomandations, it's hard with so many good brands to choose between. If I lived in the UK I would first and foremost go for a local knifemaker, Mike Spain seems carry a reasonable priced woodlore clone, I think I would maybe have gotten one of those but in 2.5 mm O1. The guy (stuart_m maybe, no time to search) who made British Reds beater knife could probably knock up something useful (although thinner blade for me). Bison bushcraft seem to know their knifes too. I have no connection with anyone of these, not even as a satisfied customer, but I like their stuff (from the totally biased interface of the interweb and some jpegs, but hey, I'm only human!
).If you want more of a budget choice and still want a chopper or more heavy duty cutting I still think a axe-knife combo is hard to beat, it doesn't have to be GB, you know.. Otherwise I think strømeng does brilliant choppers that has a design that has evolved thrugh hundreds of years of use in the northern forrests of scandinavia. Isakki has brilliant knives. Brusletto, Helle, Karesuando, solingen, Bark river, Mora (of course..), Svord and Eka are other knifemakers I think are good value. Companies I think are really bogus are cold steel, fällkniven, strider, spyderco, ontario spec-plus (no experience of their other production lines..). I have not tried any, but I really dislike the wiseman tool (I know some members swear by it), I can't stand the fact that he actually encourages digging with the bloody thing. If I were in a survival situation with only one tool/knife, I sure as h**l wouldn't dig with it, but hey, maybe that's just me?
If you happen to disagree with me, you are wrong.
Everybody has the right to their opinion, this is mine.
Come on BS! Get off the fence and tell us what you realy think of these knives!
We may not agree on everything but we seem to be of one mind on these matters...
My favourite knives tend to be Moras, Isakki and a little damascus job off the web - maker unknown - some Buck knives are OK and some generic no names do at a pinch...
Some makes realy do remove the pish though!
I have yet to dip a toe in "bespoke" knives though so I cannot comment other than to say there are some beauties on this site!
We may not agree on everything
but we seem to be of one mind on these matters... My favourite knives tend to be Moras, Isakki and a little damascus job off the web - maker unknown - some Buck knives are OK and some generic no names do at a pinch...
Some makes realy do remove the pish though!
I have yet to dip a toe in "bespoke" knives though so I cannot comment other than to say there are some beauties on this site!
I can see where your coming from big-swede and I have to agree, I think people are often easily swayed by the glossy pictures and wild claims of the larger manufacturers, not to mention peer pressure from folks who've already made a purchase from one of the big names.
There is a very sizable community of UK custom knife makers and they deserve our support.
sc_barker's recent posting on these pages should be reason enough not to opt for a mass produced 'sharpened crowbar'
(Although at 3mm it's maybe still perhaps a little too thick for you?)
I would be in agreement about not needing a knife that is 5 or 6 mm thick. BS's description of it being "a sharpened crowbar" seems quite apt. I admit to being the owner of a F1 fallkniven and in general, I am very happy with it, but at 4 mm it is on the verge of being too thick. For many a year I worked as a Butcher and we mainly used knives that were 2.5 to 3mm thick. They were used for 8 hours a day, 6 days a week and I must admit that we were not kind to our knives. They were used as crowbars and hammers. they were used to split the shin bone off a cow and were used to pry the shin joint apart, and I never once saw one break. I think that it is a bit of a mith that knives need to be thick to give them strength. 3mm is more than ample for a bush knife.
I am sooo glad to hear members talk about:
a) blades that are under 4mm thick as a preference for Bushcraft. Its not an 'arms race' where bigger is better. Having owned blades of 4mm and thicker I have never got on with them. You learn from experience...and from listening to you guys on this forum!
b) Power to the small, artisan maker! Forget the corporates. Why spend loadsamoney on mass produced knives when you can get someone like BS mentions (add Elma to that list) that can make stunning, individual knives.
a) blades that are under 4mm thick as a preference for Bushcraft. Its not an 'arms race' where bigger is better. Having owned blades of 4mm and thicker
I have never got on with them. You learn from experience...and from listening to you guys on this forum! b) Power to the small, artisan maker! Forget the corporates. Why spend loadsamoney on mass produced knives when you can get someone like BS mentions (add Elma to that list) that can make stunning, individual knives.
In retrospect, I don't really like my nick here, especially not the initials..
"BS is just talking BS..."
In retrospect, I don't really like my nick here, especially not the initials..
"BS is just talking BS..."
No no, Big Swede, it's not BS and I can appreciate your criticism. Obviously I feel bad deep inside because I own the thickest of the Fallknivens.... but the most used knife (it came out by natural selection) is the basic Isakkii leuku. works like a charm!
The only point where I disagree is the inclusion of Helle; very nice knife for the cutting department but I stopped trying to get some sparks from a firesteel; the aouter part of the laminated blade is too soft.
Keep up the spirit, and give us all your Swedish passion!
The only point where I disagree is the inclusion of Helle; very nice knife for the cutting department but I stopped trying to get some sparks from a firesteel; the aouter part of the laminated blade is too soft.
Keep up the spirit, and give us all your Swedish passion!
Haha, no I didn't think of your post as criticism, I merely reflected over my unfortunate initials. Haha.
Helle knifes are laminated steel why would you expect to get big sparks of it?why not use a proper striker or carbon blade to get a spark?
Now, those who know me on these forums know that Im never one to court controversy <ahem>. But I feel the need to report that Im currently carving a well seasoned, very hard, beech wood pick-axe handle, and an S1 is giving a zero ground carbon steel Clipper a proper spanking. Both in terms of how its removing wood more quickly and in its holding of a finely honed edge.
Im finding the S1 is better than two other Mora type knives that are specifically designed for wood carving, these are also zero ground (one is a Frosts, the other an Eriksson). And a convex ground BRK&T Aurora are whipping the behind of those two also.
The only other two knives Ive tried so far on the beech wood that are outperforming the S1 are an Eriksson 711 and a carbon steel Hultafors, but Im guessing that the VG-10 is going to hold an edge for much, much longer than either of those two.
And an F2 it putting up a creditable performance also. According to Peter Hjortberger of Fallkniven the F2 isnt intended just a fish filleting knife, its also meant for general outdoor use.
A thick convex blade is meant to give strength to an edge and to help prevent chipping when used on hard materials. The factory grind may not suit ones specific purposes, but it is possible to regrind it (by hand, no machinery needed) to change its performance to that more suited to specific needs. And I believe that Peter knows this, and understands that the knife owner may like to adjust the grind.
If Scrimmys question was is the S1 better for carving than the A1? then my answer would be, yes, because its thinner than the A1 and the S1 is more easily reground to make a respectable carving knife.
And if Scrimmys question was is the A1 better at chopping than the S1? then my answer would be, yes, because the A1 has enough weight for some effective chopping, but its no substitute for an axe in any other circumstances than an emergency and if you dont have an axe with you.
And to pose a question of my own, is an S1 or A1 a sloyd knife?, no, theyre not
As ever, its horses for courses as the saying goes. Even the kind of wood that one is working can affect the choice of knife used, in my limited experience. We all know different knives excel at different things.
My credo is buy, use, learn.
Very kind regards,
Paul.
Im finding the S1 is better than two other Mora type knives that are specifically designed for wood carving, these are also zero ground (one is a Frosts, the other an Eriksson). And a convex ground BRK&T Aurora are whipping the behind of those two also.
The only other two knives Ive tried so far on the beech wood that are outperforming the S1 are an Eriksson 711 and a carbon steel Hultafors, but Im guessing that the VG-10 is going to hold an edge for much, much longer than either of those two.
And an F2 it putting up a creditable performance also. According to Peter Hjortberger of Fallkniven the F2 isnt intended just a fish filleting knife, its also meant for general outdoor use.
A thick convex blade is meant to give strength to an edge and to help prevent chipping when used on hard materials. The factory grind may not suit ones specific purposes, but it is possible to regrind it (by hand, no machinery needed) to change its performance to that more suited to specific needs. And I believe that Peter knows this, and understands that the knife owner may like to adjust the grind.
If Scrimmys question was is the S1 better for carving than the A1? then my answer would be, yes, because its thinner than the A1 and the S1 is more easily reground to make a respectable carving knife.
And if Scrimmys question was is the A1 better at chopping than the S1? then my answer would be, yes, because the A1 has enough weight for some effective chopping, but its no substitute for an axe in any other circumstances than an emergency and if you dont have an axe with you.
And to pose a question of my own, is an S1 or A1 a sloyd knife?, no, theyre not
As ever, its horses for courses as the saying goes. Even the kind of wood that one is working can affect the choice of knife used, in my limited experience. We all know different knives excel at different things.
My credo is buy, use, learn.
Very kind regards,
Paul.
