European regulation, enter and post how is it in your country

[arnoldpredator]

Hi,

I will start with Spain:

Hunting: You can only hunt some weekends a few months per year. And you can only hunt a short list of species: pigeons, rabbits, partridges...
Fishing: You need to get a license for both sea, and river, not quite expensive.

I wonder if there are countries where hunting is not as difficult, obviously it would be impossible here to survive in the woods the whole year... according to the laws you should go to jail.

Is there any country where you could actually live from the nature and at the same time it would be legal?

At least in Spain you can fish everyday, but What about hunting?

 

[Toddy]

An estate owner I know was horrified after a group of Spanish hunters booked in for a week. He thought they were after deer....it's a forestry estate and the deer are a problem, he was happy for them to help deal with it.
Instead they shot every wee bird in the place, from blackbirds to robins, because they said, "We do that in Europe".
Well, it didn't go down well in Scotland.
Is it true that they shoot the wee birds in Spain though ?

cheers,
Toddy

 

[sandbender]

"...Is there any country where you could actually live from the nature..."

By hunting alone, on your own, no, however if you have a big enough bit of land, with good soil and water along with a few families working together, maybe, but then you'd be better of keeping livestock.

In Hungary one can hunt larger game, there are written tests that must be completed before you can be licensed, you have to be a citizen to legally posses a firearm. There are seasonal restrictions that must be complied with and an extensive network of game wardens.

Bow hunting is legal but again requires a license.

Many people are hungry and poaching is a problem.

The fishing is fantastic and again there are restrictions in place to protect wildlife.

 

[allrightscud]

In the UK the main problem would be land. You need the land owners permission or rent/buy the shooting or hunting rights to the land before you can hunt anything from it. It is possible but very hard to live only on the land as a hunter gather type. Obviously the more land you have access or permission to hunt over the gretaer the chance of hunting success and variety of food.

There are open and closed seasons for game in the UK also, so you'd be limited to what quarry you could take when. There are other animals like wood pigeion and rabbit which is classed as pest species and on a general licence and can be taken all year round. Althought this is a bit of a hunting loop hole as its suposed to be for pest control not game harvesting.

A good book on the subject for the UK is a book called The Wild Life. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wild-Life-Year-Living/dp/055277460X A writer decided to be hunter gatherer for a year and chronicle is experiance.

 

[Martti]

Is there any country where you could actually live from the nature and at the same time it would be legal?

In Finland firearms, bows and traps (the two latter one only for certain smaller game animals) are legal hunting methods. Fishing is allowed without a permission when using a simple rod. Gillnets, tridents and reeled rods require a permission, which can be obtained by paying a small fee.

Hunting Act

Game animals include:
1) rabbit, mountain hare, brown hare, red squirrel, European beaver, Canadian beaver,
muskrat, nutria, wolf, farmed arctic fox, red fox, raccoon dog, bear, raccoon, badger,
ermine, polecat, otter, pine marten, American mink, wolverine, lynx, Baltic ringed seal,
harbour seal, grey seal, wild boar, fallow deer, red deer, sika deer, roe deer, moose, whitetailed
deer, forest reindeer, and mouflon; and

2) Canadian goose, greylag goose, bean goose, mallard, teal, wigeon, pintail, garganey,
shoveler, pochard, tufted duck, common eider, long-tailed duck, goldeneye, red-breasted
merganser, goosander, willow grouse, ptarmigan, hazel grouse, black grouse, capercaillie,
partridge, pheasant, coot, woodcock, and wood pigeon.

On right to hunt on State-owned land in Northern Finland:

Persons whose domicile is in a municipality of the Province of Lapland or in the municipalities of Kajaani, Hyrynsalmi, Kuhmo, Kuusamo, Paltamo, Pudasjärvi, Puolanka, Ristijärvi, Sotkamo, Suomussalmi, Taivalkoski, Vaala, or Vuolijoki have the right to hunt on State-owned land in their home municipality.

 

[allrightscud]

Here's a link to UK quarry species and seasons.

http://basc.org.uk/game-and-gamekeeping/quarry-species-shooting-seasons/

 

[Toddy]

I'm going to shift this thread from Out and About to Fair Game.

Toddy

 

[rik_uk3]

When I lived on Cyprus you could hunt Turtle Dove and Wood Pigeon, Hare and Thrushes amongst other things.

 

[santaman2000]

......Is there any country where you could actually live from the nature and at the same time it would be legal?

At least in Spain you can fish everyday, but What about hunting?

Yes. Quite easily (IF! If you're a good enough hunter and fisherman) Generally no license is required to hunt or fish on your own land (unless you're hunting migratory waterfowl) Likewise no license is required if you're underage (usually about 15 in most states) Nor if you're a senior citizen (usually about 65) Nor if you're disabled. Even on public land the licenses are relatively cheap in most states for basic fishing and small game.

 

[arnoldpredator]

An estate owner I know was horrified after a group of Spanish hunters booked in for a week. He thought they were after deer....it's a forestry estate and the deer are a problem, he was happy for them to help deal with it.
Instead they shot every wee bird in the place, from blackbirds to robins, because they said, "We do that in Europe".
Well, it didn't go down well in Scotland.
Is it true that they shoot the wee birds in Spain though ?

cheers,
Toddy

Well I guess those spaniards were stupid, nobody here (as far as I know) is hunting small birds, it is not allowed.

By hunting alone, on your own, no, however if you have a big enough bit of land, with good soil and water along with a few families working together, maybe, but then you'd be better of keeping livestock.

In Hungary one can hunt larger game, there are written tests that must be completed before you can be licensed, you have to be a citizen to legally posses a firearm. There are seasonal restrictions that must be complied with and an extensive network of game wardens.

Bow hunting is legal but again requires a license.

Many people are hungry and poaching is a problem.

The fishing is fantastic and again there are restrictions in place to protect wildlife.

That indeed is a shame, it makes me feel really sad.

Well the problem is I have nothing, if I had a big enough bit of land I wouldn't be asking about surviving in the wilderness.

Thanks for that info. I forgot to mention that detail too, in Spain bow hunting is legal, you need a license obviously.

In the UK the main problem would be land. You need the land owners permission or rent/buy the shooting or hunting rights to the land before you can hunt anything from it. It is possible but very hard to live only on the land as a hunter gather type. Obviously the more land you have access or permission to hunt over the gretaer the chance of hunting success and variety of food.

There are open and closed seasons for game in the UK also, so you'd be limited to what quarry you could take when. There are other animals like wood pigeion and rabbit which is classed as pest species and on a general licence and can be taken all year round. Althought this is a bit of a hunting loop hole as its suposed to be for pest control not game harvesting.

A good book on the subject for the UK is a book called The Wild Life. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Wild-Life-Year-Living/dp/055277460X A writer decided to be hunter gatherer for a year and chronicle is experiance.

I didn't know you could hunt those species the whole year, it is interesting. But UK looks not the easiest country to live, if I have to rent a flat is going to be very expensive. And sleeping anywhere will not be allowed. I think camping is not allowed, I mean for free in the middle of a mountain.

That book is very interesting, I will try to get it.

In Finland firearms, bows and traps (the two latter one only for certain smaller game animals) are legal hunting methods. Fishing is allowed without a permission when using a simple rod. Gillnets, tridents and reeled rods require a permission, which can be obtained by paying a small fee.

Hunting Act


On right to hunt on State-owned land in Northern Finland:

Thanks, in Spain traps are not legal.

That is great, they let you fish.

Thank you for that detailed information.

Finland looks good regarding the laws, the problem here would be the winter and I think camping, or vivac, is going to be an issue in all countries.

Here's a link to UK quarry species and seasons.

http://basc.org.uk/game-and-gamekeeping/quarry-species-shooting-seasons/

Thanks!

When I lived on Cyprus you could hunt Turtle Dove and Wood Pigeon, Hare and Thrushes amongst other things.

Thanks. Cyprus looks a cheap country if I needed to rent a flat, if hunting laws are permissive could be a good option.

Yes. Quite easily (IF! If you're a good enough hunter and fisherman) Generally no license is required to hunt or fish on your own land (unless you're hunting migratory waterfowl) Likewise no license is required if you're underage (usually about 15 in most states) Nor if you're a senior citizen (usually about 65) Nor if you're disabled. Even on public land the licenses are relatively cheap in most states for basic fishing and small game.

Well the point is, I am not in any of those special circumstances and I don't own any land. I live with my parents but that is not going to last for ages, someday this will end and if I don't have a job surviving hunting and fishing could be an option. What I would like to know is where can I do it without breaking local laws and confront with police or something like that.

It looks like the current economic system is designed in a way that only lets you live legally if you have a work, or at least you have some method to earn money, without money you can't live which is terrible in my opinion.

 

[mrcharly]

arnold, there have been communities where people worked 'for their living' (accommodation, food and clothes + other basic needs). However it is getting increasingly difficult.

Those communities are now finding it very hard - when someone leaves the community, they have no financial records, no tax credits, haven't paid into the state medical system. It is sad that we (western-type civilizations) are so totally structured around the money system.

There are still places where you can work for a small living plus get accommodation. Farms that run uphill sheep need people during lambing season, some of the larger farms and estates have a need for people to do general labouring work and provide (very basic) accommodation.

 

[Toddy]

What about the organic farming volunteers ? It's a good way of getting around Europe and being fed and housed and learning a myriad of useful skills and making masses of connections among people. I think it'd look good on a CV too.

http://www.wwoof.net/

atb,
Toddy

 

[sunndog]

Op, i reckon you're best bet would be to marry into a first nation tribe somewhere lol

There isn't much land in europe that's not owned by someone

 

[santaman2000]

Yes. Quite easily (IF! If you're a good enough hunter and fisherman) Generally no license is required to hunt or fish on your own land (unless you're hunting migratory waterfowl) Likewise no license is required if you're underage (usually about 15 in most states) Nor if you're a senior citizen (usually about 65) Nor if you're disabled. Even on public land the licenses are relatively cheap in most states for basic fishing and small game.

Well the point is, I am not in any of those special circumstances and I don't own any land. I live with my parents but that is not going to last for ages, someday this will end and if I don't have a job surviving hunting and fishing could be an option. What I would like to know is where can I do it without breaking local laws and confront with police or something like that.

It looks like the current economic system is designed in a way that only lets you live legally if you have a work, or at least you have some method to earn money, without money you can't live which is terrible in my opinion.

That still would leave you an option over here. My post was regarding hunting and fishing only, as that's what you asked. That said, if you're willing to take up trapping as well (yes, trapping is legal; no, trapping and hunting aren't the same) then you can also make money selling pelts. Many people still do this as their only money making job.

You don't need your own land or to be in any of the special circumstances to hunt, fish, or trap; there's plenty of public land. The license fees are generally fairly reasonable for residents of the state that issues them (I assume you would live wherever you would be hunting/fishing/trapping.

If indeed you do intend to live where you practice this, then there's one special circumstance that would apply for fishing: Generally, in m ost states, fishing does NOT require a license if the following method and condition is used:

A) Use a pole without any type of reel (just tie the line directly to the pole)
B) Use only live or natural bait (no artificial lures)
C) Be fishing within the county where you reside.


It's usually referred to as the "cane pole law" although an actual cane pole isn't necessary (at least not in Florida)

 

[British Red]

How would you plan to cope if you became ill or injured arnold? Just lay down and die?

 

[daveO]

Well I guess those spaniards were stupid, nobody here (as far as I know) is hunting small birds, it is not allowed.

That indeed is a shame, it makes me feel really sad.

Cyprus looks a cheap country if I needed to rent a flat, if hunting laws are permissive could be a good option.

Cyprus and Malta are currenty coming under pressure for their hunting laws and lack of enforcement over illegal hunting.

Posting for awareness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ehOvfA6hls

 

[cbr6fs]

How would you plan to cope if you became ill or injured arnold? Just lay down and die?

+1

It's extremely short sighted and naive to think you can just up and move to a country and live off the land, land that is in most cases owned by someone else.

Unless you are hunting big game like deer, boar etc it's going to be extremely difficult to kill and forage enough to keep you in sustenance.

You also have to think about purchasing ammunition, gun licenses, repairs, maintenance, getting to and from hunting grounds.
You'll also have to find some way of making the meat last.

You then have to think that there are very very few areas where you are allowed to hunt anything, all the time, so you will have to hunt only what is in season, so that'll often mean travelling to different areas.

There is also the time involved, it takes time to learn how a species acts, where they sleep or roost, where to find them at certain times of the day, where to aim to kill them quickly.

You'll also need to be a good marksman, and with lower powered guns or easily spooked game, a good stalker, this again needs time and patience.

Even if you have the skill, knowledge, finances and permission to hunt on some land, how long do you think you can hunt before a certain species becomes wise or you've killed them all in that area?


Then there is your health to consider, if you are eating the same meat every day from the same area it's not going to be the healthiest way to live.

Even if you have money for medical care, what happens if you are laid up with flu for 2 weeks, who will supply you with food then?


No doubt that there are folks in areas of the world that do live off the land, so it is possible, these people have built up their knowledge and skills over many years though, they often have communities around to take up the slack when illness strikes.

 

[sunndog]

"No doubt that there are folks in areas of the world that do live off the land, so it is possible, these people have built up their knowledge and skills over many years though, they often have communities around to take up the slack when illness strikes."


Yep, and even these folk wouldn't live to be old men if they were doing it on their own

Arnold, how long were you thinking of doing this?...it comes accross as a life choice
I'm afriad mate that it would be a harsh, miserable, and relatively short one even if you possess the knowlage and skill set of a first nation dweller in the area you choose

Imagine that first winter. Or the winter that comes after the one that killed the last of you're nice modern gear. Brrrrr lol

Kudos for even considering it though. Truth be told its a fantasy for a lot of us on here
I'v been into "bushcraft" since before it was called that and I wouldn't have the balls to
Plan to permanently move into the wilderness and abandon all concept of money


......adam

 

[santaman2000]

.....There is also the time involved, it takes to learn how a species acts, where they sleep or roost, where to find them at certain times of the day, where to aim to kill them quickly.

You'll also need to be a good markman and with lower powered guns or easily spooked game a good stalker, this again needs time and patience.....

With game such as rabbit, squirrel, dove, quail, turkey..... You just use a 12 or 20 gauge and aim center mass (or with a little lead if it's moving)

The rest of your arguments are pretty good though, and I agree. It's certainly possible to feed yourself by hunting and fishing alone. But that won't feed you well. It leaves out all the starches and vegetables, and you still need a freezer or some other way to keep your haul. And you need a place to live, access to medical care, ammo, fishing tackle, etc.

And to the OP; yes your posts after the OP seem to indicate you expect to live entirely off grid (with no economic ties at all to civilization) That is seriously more difficult than simply feeding yourself by hunting and fishing.

 

[CRAY]

In Finland firearms, bows and traps (the two latter one only for certain smaller game animals) are legal hunting methods. Fishing is allowed without a permission when using a simple rod.

Finland:

Dammit,.. jealous!

I spent a little time in Finland, loved it. Most of Northern Europe is quiet special if your into the outdoors.