Eighty moose?

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Burnt Ash

Nomad
Sep 24, 2003
338
1
East Sussex
I was re-reading Mors Kochanski's Northern Bushcraft the other day and came across something that had niggled me at the first reading of the book. In Chapter 11, 'The Moose', Kochanski states that amongst Northern peoples "A family of four may consume 80 moose a year, compared to about three times as many caribou."

Now the moose (Alces alces) has an adult live and entire weight ranging from about 600lb to over 1,300lb. The average fall (autumn) weight of a moose cow is around 880lb. There are various established formulae for calculating field dressed weight (gralloched + head removed); carcass weight (hide removed) and boneless venison weight for various deer species. I am no expert, and my maths may be a little rusty, but my calculations seem to indicate a monster meat diet, if Kochanski's assertion is correct.

Here's my question: How much moose venison does 80 moose per year equate to, expressed as pounds of boneless meat, per person (equally divided amongst the four in the family), per week?

Burnt Ash
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
I can only answer on behalf of the scandinavian moose, which is generally smaller than the north american counter part (although the mooses in Sarek tends to be of the same size as the alaska moose).

The moose around here can weigh up to 520 kilos for a bull, the slaughtered bulk is around 55%, the hide about 8%, and the rest (bones, guts, sinews, and other disgusting stuff found inside animals) counts for 37%. (according to my hunting exam books). I think it is safe to say that the proportions would be the same for north american (i.e. canadian) moose.

The living Mors teaches could probably not use all the meat (no freezers...) so the actual practical usable meat would probably prove to be less than the 55% of the slaughtered weight. You have to consider that carbs are hard to come by in the northern forests so it isn't comparable to having a moose filet with potatoes and gravy.

EDIT: spelling..
 

Stuart

Full Member
Sep 12, 2003
4,141
50
**********************
you also need to take into account that the diets of the 'Northern peoples' to which he refers are composed mainly of meat and fat (with little vegetable matter), and this is more noticeable the further north you go, the Innuit for example lived, for much of the year on a diet consisting exclusively of meat (muscle, fat and organs).

And their calorific requirment would certainly considerably exceed that of the average (and by comparison sedentary) modern western man.
 

mace242

Native
Aug 17, 2006
1,015
0
52
Yeovil, Somerset, UK
Quick maths - you wait this'll be proved wrong in about 5 mins - works that out at about 15 kilos per person per day of usable meat. That's a lot of moose burger!

Say that lots of that gets lost to wastage / spoilage - that's still at least 5 kilos per person per day of meat. What kind of amount of meat do Innuit eat? I'd suppose if all you ate was meat you could eat that much - I'm not going to try though.
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
I can understand Mors argument. Picture yourself with your better half, and two young'uns. Now, after a while, you will probably have grown weary with them, bored really. Better half goes on why you don't take her/him out anymore, the kids are getting on your nerves and complaining all the time. After a couple of months there is virtually no spoken dialogues, merely grunts and angry looks. Is there any way to avoid this situation? Of course! Let the family gather around a common pasttime: Moose hunting! Get's any aggression out, and makes a great conversation in the evenings.. The family eats around 20-30 mooses a year, the rest is just hunting for fun!

:D
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
moose calves would be protected byt their mothers and is not easier to kill, if you consider weight of meat/effort ratio.

I guess that almost all native people would realise that killing the calves would be fatal, as there wouldn't be any bulls or cows the coming years.
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,353
2,364
Bedfordshire
Fishy1, please stop talking rubbish. :rolleyes:


I can't say that I really care to argue about whether Mors Kochanski knows what he is talking about in his books:rolleyes:
However, I did some digging around and if you are interested in how much meat people eat in the north, then this site is probably worth reading.

http://www.subsistence.adfg.state.ak.us/geninfo/about/subfaq.cfm
Does "subsistence" mean hunting and fishing for food?

Certainly food is one of the most important subsistence uses of wild resources. The current rural subsistence harvest is about 354 pounds of food per person per year. That is more than the U.S. average consumption of 255 pounds of domestic meat, fish, and poultry per year. (The average American uses a total of 1,371 pounds of all foods a year.) However, there are other important uses of subsistence products, such as:


http://www.subsistence.adfg.state.ak.us/TechPap/tp028.pdf
http://www.subsistence.adfg.state.ak.us/TechPap/tp074.pdf
 

Burnt Ash

Nomad
Sep 24, 2003
338
1
East Sussex
I can't say that I really care to argue about whether Mors Kochanski knows what he is talking about in his books:rolleyes:

Mr Claycomb, of course you care. I hold Mors Kochanski's teachings in very high regard, but not so exalted that they cannot be examined or challenged.

I feel certain (though I've never met him) that Mr Kochanski (perhaps, after re-arranging the odd ruffled feather) would be pleased that his acolytes had not entirely abandoned their critical faculties.

Eighty moose a year (for a family of four) equals one-and-a-half moose per week. A fall moose cow weighs an average of 880lb. Whichever way you cut it, and caloric requirements, spoilage, wastage, etc., etc., included, that is still one heck of a lot of meat!

Burnt Ash
 

demographic

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
4,691
710
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For a start off, do they keep the males for long?
With sheep the males get castrated then killed off as Lamb meat when young, the ewes they keep to produce more lambs and so they only keep a few males to grow into rams.

Therefore the young males hardly ever get the chance to grow up to full adult weight.
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
For a start off, do they keep the males for long?
With sheep the males get castrated then killed off as Lamb meat when young, the ewes they keep to produce more lambs and so they only keep a few males to grow into rams.

Therefore the young males hardly ever get the chance to grow up to full adult weight.

What? Who keeps moose? There are very few domesticated moose in the world. A moose calf stays with it's mother until the next calf is borne, the former is then forced to make it by itself. There is no castration in wild moose, moose is venison, not farm animals.
 

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