Discussing prices in sales threads

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Martyn

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Aug 7, 2003
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Toddy said:
I do take Martyn's point about sales, but the forum is a social place full of an assortment of interested groupings and tentative friendships. Gossiping about prices and bargains is normal conversation.
BcUK is not a commercially orientated forum, the Makers Market and the Classified sections are relatively small.
I can't see *rules* about not discussing prices working to be honest. I do think a little gentle discretion would be a better way of dealing with matters, but that does mean that sometimes we'll have the occasional thread like this when we thrashout the pros and cons of certain opinions/ good manners.
Problem is Toddy, the site has 5000 members and it does have a classifieds section, which is by definition commercial. There is nothing to stop people selling at "mates rates" if they want to, but you cant ask it of all the members. If you are going to have sales at all, then sales need to be sales. They shouldn't be interfered with and it should be up to the buyer to make thier own judgement as to the worth of an item and vote with thier feet if they dont like the price - not the community to apply pressure or intimidation to an individual to drop thier prices.

Red is as generous a man as you could meet, but it is niether fair or reasonable to expect everyone to be so benevolent. Ethical issue aside, many people simply cant afford to be.

There is no crime at all in asking for a nearly new price for an unused item and people should not be made to feel uncomfortable about doing so.

If we allow people to post alternative cheaper sources in sales threads, then we will be sanctioning the application of community pressure onto the seller. That cant be right.
 

Alex...

Tenderfoot
Feb 2, 2007
51
1
46
Silverstone
WOW

This is a rather OTT Thread. There are many great threads here. I think that there are several principles that I have already highlighted, that people have raised here!

So how about - sell here if you have something that may be of interest to others at a price you are happy to sell at.

Dispute it if you are able to find a cheaper price elsewhere

Failing that, if you cant find a cheaper alternative then you are adding NOTHING to the discussion and so dont make an input.


Alex... said:
Hi guy's

I'm still relatively new to this forum, but always like to have an input (and in this case it is part of my business).

Anyone can ask whatever price they want for an item. The simple laws of Supply and Demand apply as in every scenario.

I have bought three items from Hjaltlander, the first a saw, which I have not seen advertised cheaper (if you include P&P), a Thermarest which again is unlikely to be cheaper including P&P. I have also bought a pocket cooker which I however I have seen cheaper elsewhere (States import) but for the ease of convenience, just made practical sense to buy at the same time.

HOWEVER!

I dont think anyone should have their views censored or criticised. Sometimes things could be said better perhaps, but we all learn.

May I make a suggestion...

If someone is selling something that you think is over priced and perhaps exploitative then feel free to add a link to the same item at a cheaper price elsewhere. That way both the seller and the buyer can evaluate the price and either amend it, negotiate or go elsewhere to purchase.

This seems rather over heated. If you were in the pub and one of your mates said "I've got this for sale" and another said "you can buy it here for x amount cheaper" neither the seller or buyer would be critical. In all likelehood that would agree to do a 'price match'.

Can i just add that I am pleased with the items I have purchased from Hjaltlander at the price I paid. But i am still happy for people to recommend cheaper alternatives at any time.!

But then again I am a tight ****! :)

Alex



P.S. Ohhhh there's a swear filter on this!
 

Martyn

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British Red said:
Honestly Martyn, I would rather know in advance that I was charging more than someone could get if for elsewhere as I'd hate someone to feel I was ripping them off - I'd probably drop my price to less than a "new with tags" one - but thats just me I agree.

To me, the sales on this forum are more like a "community add" or selling to a friend or neighbour - I'm more worried about making sure a bit of kit I no longer need gets used and a good home than getting the last penny I can for something - if I had something I wanted to get every penny I could from, I'd probably post it on E-bay which is an unashamed "sell as high as you can place" - nothing wrong with that in its place at all. I guess I see the member adds here as a bit more of a service to both parties - more of an "add on" than the main purpose of the forum.

I'll be the first to admit I've sold a knife here for more than the new price elsewhere. I suspect Magikelly knew that though :D. Another member did put a humorous post on that it wasn't worth it which I took in good part (he also sent me a kind PM later btw).

I duuno - I was trying to find a middle ground here in which members who want to sell to each other out could do so but also a foster that protective spirit which I see as a positively motivated intent

Red
Recently on BB, there was a bit of a kick-off because people were selling stuff at "mates-rates" ...which they often do. Problem is, a couple of people were scooping the stuff up and then immediately flogging it on ebay for a profit. Same could easily happen here. How does that sit? How do you sanction against that?

After lengthy discussion we concluded the only thing we could conclude - a sale, is a sale. If you sell something, you must be happy with the price. There is no guarantee what the buyer will do with it and once you have sold it, it's no longer your property and you dont have any rights over it.

This would seem to undermine the mates rates deals, but there is no other way that is even close to reasonable.

The same is true here, a sale is a sale, it's a private contract between the seller and the buyer and it's nobody elses business. It should be sacrasanct.
 

dommyracer

New Member
May 26, 2006
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Mine neither, but looking stuff up on the internet after a skinful seems to be my forte.

Your sig should be signed "Burt Gummer" BTW
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
25,532
402
Mercia
Martyn said:
Recently on BB, there was a bit of a kick-off because people were selling stuff at "mates-rates" ...which they often do. Problem is, a couple of people were scooping the stuff up and then immediately flogging it on ebay for a profit. Same could easily happen here. How does that sit? How do you sanction against that?
Huh? I'd do what I did tonight when Dougster sold a carpenters axe I passed on to him. Congratulate him on selling it and hope he was happy with what he got for it! It ceased being mine when I sold it to him!

This seems to be something where the views are polarised and positions entrenched. As someone who doesn't really have a dog this fight I'll leave to bigger or better people to agree a solution or position

Red
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
Admin
Apr 16, 2003
22,109
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mikesknives said:
Does this still stand or is it closed so it can be forgotten about?
Patience is a virtue :D Although of course you can think what you like.


Anyway, on with the subject.

I’ve had lots of PM’s and emails about this, some of them helpful and some of them ranting and not so helpful. There’s always going to be differences of opinion on these things such as in this case. I’m torn between what I think would be a perfect world and the practicalities of loads of people with different opinions all interacting together on this forum, sometimes they’re a world apart.

I don’t think this issue comes up very often but even so my inclination is to say no comments at all on the prices of items for sale, I’ve always been of a mind that if you don’t like the prices, don’t buy, if no one buys they soon drop the prices or ask why their stuff hasn’t sold. This for me and the others would be the easiest to moderate, it would be very straight forward and work, even if some didn’t agree with it, hey, there’s lots people that complain no matter what.

Thus, I have to say that when I read the thread I agreed with Martyn and his moderation. I also think that Martyn was badgered for moderating and that shouldn’t have happened, I have asked him to moderate and where there’s no guidelines he is to make decisions and he’s good at it. For as many PM’s I received having a whine I got the same saying he was right (as always there’s different opinions) Nothing in the thread wound me up but that did. The original comment by a moderator was not over moderation, it was a simple statement, it got drawn out after the fact. If there’s issues in the future bring them up separately, or by PM but pack in the sniping.

Due to the plethora of comments I’ve received I’m thinking that I’d like to try and implement guidelines that aren’t - yes you can comment or no you can’t, which to be honest would be the easiest route. We’ll try this, if it doesn’t work we’ll revert to the no comments about pricing rule.

1. Seller posts up the price they want for an item.
2. Seller posts up that it includes fees and postage or not.
3. Buyers accept the price or not.
4. If the buyers think the prices are a bit high they can comment politely in the thread or via PM to the seller.
5. Do not all jump into the thread and say the prices are high, or you can get it here or there cheaper. Leave it alone if someone has already politely pointed it out.
6. The Seller can then comment as they see fit, change prices etc as they want to.
7. Do not keep jumping in saying the same thing as the posts will be removed and warnings given.
8. Always be polite and considerate.
9. Buyers end up buying or not
10. Seller ends up selling or not

There’s responsibility both ways, the seller should consider the prices he’s putting things up at, obviously if it’s a one off item made of precious materials he they can ask what they like for it as it’s got a value based on what people are willing to pay. If it’s a standard product then it needs to be pitched at a price that will sell, if it’s not it won’t.

If buyers think the prices are steep then politely say so, once. If someone has already said the prices are a bit high then there’s not need to say it again and again, drop the seller a polite PM saying that you’d buy from him but the item(s) are a bit much. Make sure you’ve got a good basis for it though and that it’s not just your whim that you want it cheaper.

If you’re a seller it’s in your interest to put up a good price so that your items sell, if someone comments about the prices consider the comment and act as you will. Keep the prices, change them or whatever, up to you.

I don’t think that people post comment to be nasty, the say what they’re thinking and sometime it can seem very blunt, just be a bit considerate and all should go smoothly. The problem with what I’ve written above is that it can still be manipulated, if someone wants to they can say “but it doesn’t say that in the rules, you can’t tell me I can’t do that” I’m leaving this as a compromise and I hope that it works out. I know from past experience that you’re all a good bunch and that you recognise the part you play in helping things run smoothly, there’s a big onus on you the members to make this work. If it doesn’t work I’ll change to the blanket rule of no comments about prices on sales threads.

If for any reason a moderator does step in take on board what’s said and abide by it, they do what I’ve asked of them. If there’s an issue let me know or bring it up with the mod in question via PM, if it’s a good subject for general discussion it can be discussed. Do not turn the thread into a debate.

One thing I have noticed though is that some expect things to be resolved in their time, if for instance I’m busy (or in Hospital as was the case this time) it will wait, snide comments just muddy the water and create bad feeling.

I hope this issue is closed now, you know the score.

Thanks for all the well structured comments that came my way and for those that were posted in the thread. :You_Rock_
 

Silverback

Full Member
Sep 29, 2006
978
15
England
A members comments regarding pricing actually assisted me in negotiating a better deal for a small group buy so it can work positively (unless you have already parted with the cash of course :lmao: )
 

Martyn

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Aug 7, 2003
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The original criticisms of prices in this thread, were neither polite or helpfull. They were snide and disparaginging.

Some people have commented that this isssue is not about pricing, but about over-moderation.

I agree, it is about moderation. My polite request not to comment on pricing was met with sarcasm and my firm isistance was met with argument. There is a core element on this site that is fundamentally challenging of the authority of moderators on the site and refuses to accept the authority of anyone. They seem to think that moderators should send a PM, then discuss the issue for a bit, then come to some mutually agreed compromise for every issue that arises. That's not how it works and frankly sometimes seems more about making moderators jump through hoops than anything to do with diplomacy. Andyn and spoony were wrong to make the challenges in this thread and they were moderated accordingly. That should of been the end of the issue.

I am a busy man, a hard-faced moderator who doesnt have the time, patience or inclination to moderate by long winded debate. That makes me stand out a bit - perhaps more so because I dont care when people object - problem is I really dont care. When a moderator asks you to do something in a reasonable way, you should do it, not whine like children and I have nil patience for those that do. You are guests on this forum - you should behave like it - or at least accept the authority of those people put in a position to moderate.

So I've decided to leave that style of moderation for those people with the time and inclination to pander to it, because I have none. If it was up to me, I would not be seeking a diplomatic solution, I would be telling you not to comment on prices and that would be the end of the discussion.

So it's probably for ther best that I have given Tony my resignation as a moderator. My choice I might add, Tony has not spoken to me about this issue at all.

Thanks.
Martyn.
 

andyn

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Aug 15, 2005
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Martyn, that is a shame you feel you have to jump off the mod ship over a disagreement of opinion of a few members.

But...
If it was up to me, I would not be seeking a diplomatic solution, I would be telling you not to comment on prices and that would be the end of the discussion.
Perhaps it is the more diplomatic approach of Tony other moderators and the forum members that goes to making this site such a warm and welcoming place where rules aren;t just shoved down your face on a "accept it or get out" basis.

Personally I think the solution that Tony has come up with is grand, and by having the debate a suitable solution was reached. After all, like you have said before, it is impossible to please everyone....but if you can please the majority rather than fight and fight and try and shut them up....then you have a winning formula. And that is where I think this site beats any other forum hands down!

So, like i said, I think it is a shame you feel you have to take the action you have said you are doing. :(

But as you have said in the past
because the general feeling is that when someone announces that they intend to leave, we are never sure whether or not someone is just making a point, or what. If people want to leave, then perhaps they should just leave.
Hope your not going to burn all your bridges and just go, coz it would be a real shame.
 

Martyn

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Just to be clear, I have made the decision to resign as a moderator, because I dont have the time or inclination to pander to egos or dance round agendas. I have better things to do.

Just because I've thrown in my hat as a mod, does not mean I'm leaving BcUK, why would I?

Perhaps I am now just free to offer an honest opinion without hearing "...as a moderator I dont think you shoud... blah, blah, blah!".
 

British Red

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Dec 30, 2005
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Looks like this thread is getting heated again :(

Martyn, I'm sure everyone repects your decision.

Shall we all just leave it there?

Red
 
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