Conscious Plants

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Geoff Dann

Native
Sep 15, 2010
1,252
31
55
Sussex
www.geoffdann.co.uk
Hi Merrygold

This sentience is observed primarily through changes in the plant’s conductivity, as through a polygraph, as pioneered by Cleve Backster.

The above quote tells me straight away that this is pseudoscientific nonsense. What does a plant's conductivity have to do with whether or not it is conscious? As far as existing science is concerned, the answer is "nothing whatsover, as far we know." We don't even understand what consciousness is where it occurs in animals.

This does not rule out the possibility that in some sense plants are conscious. It all rather depends on your metaphysical beliefs. But there is no science to back up the speculation - this is philosophy, not science.
 

merrygold85

Nomad
Sep 11, 2010
328
1
Ireland
this is philosophy, not science.

Is this not a similar idea to how we monitor brain activity in humans, or indeed animals?

What does a plant's conductivity have to do with whether or not it is conscious.

Maybe conscious is the wrong word, but I can't think of the word for it. Maybe its similar to a person in a coma, there is brain activity but they are not necessarily conscious.

??
 

Geoff Dann

Native
Sep 15, 2010
1,252
31
55
Sussex
www.geoffdann.co.uk
Is this not a similar idea to how we monitor brain activity in humans, or indeed animals?

Brain activity is brain activity. Consciousness is not brain activity.

Maybe conscious is the wrong word, but I can't think of the word for it. Maybe its similar to a person in a coma, there is brain activity but they are not necessarily conscious.

??

"Conscious" and "consciousness" is a very problematic word. It cannot be defined in any normal way, yet we all know how to use it. :)
 

Bushwhacker

Banned
Jun 26, 2008
3,882
8
Dorset
I'm sure I've read somewhere that trees and plants and plants can communicate with each other (don't ask which types!)

Say a certain virus or disease was in the air and it affected some trees at one edge of a forest, these trees send out signals (probably chemical) that the said virus is about.
Trees at the other side of the forest receive these signals and are able to build up an immunity before the virus reaches them.

It was something along those lines........ I think.
 

Geoff Dann

Native
Sep 15, 2010
1,252
31
55
Sussex
www.geoffdann.co.uk
I'm sure I've read somewhere that trees and plants and plants can communicate with each other (don't ask which types!)

Say a certain virus or disease was in the air and it affected some trees at one edge of a forest, these trees send out signals (probably chemical) that the said virus is about.

Trees at the other side of the forest receive these signals and are able to build up an immunity before the virus reaches them.

It was something along those lines........ I think.

That's communication, but it isn't consciousness...
 

tim_n

Full Member
Feb 8, 2010
1,726
124
Essex
One of my friends was at uni with 'the tomato torturer' whose thesis involved torturing various plants to see if they had similar pain responses. They did from what I remember and depending on the damage you could effectively see them scream.
 

Bushwhacker

Banned
Jun 26, 2008
3,882
8
Dorset
This has been doing my head in all day. I don't know what consciousness is. Are bees or ants conscious or a collective conscious or neither?
 

merrygold85

Nomad
Sep 11, 2010
328
1
Ireland
Hahaha, what if we said subconsciousness? That might keep us from the self awareness thing.

But it strikes me that this is a seriously deep thing we are discussing. I mean Bushwhacker is right. What the hell is consciousness or subconsciousness or whatever it is I am trying to say? Is it the ability to act? Re-act? Communicate? Think? Does the concept even make sense in a scientific way?

Geoff Dann, "Is this not a similar idea to how we monitor brain activity in humans, or indeed animals?" was in relation to your comment about whether or not it was science, not about consciousness. In relation to your comment that we know how to use the word, I think I have just proven that I don't, haha.
 

m.durston

Full Member
Jun 15, 2005
378
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45
st albans
if i recall correctly this was the basis for a short story by Roald Dahl entitled 'the sound machine'. a scientist invents a machine that can hear plants scream when they are damaged.
interesting concept if its true...
 

Bushwhacker

Banned
Jun 26, 2008
3,882
8
Dorset
if i recall correctly this was the basis for a short story by Roald Dahl entitled 'the sound machine'. a scientist invents a machine that can hear plants scream when they are damaged.
interesting concept if its true...
Yes! I remember watching this on Tales of the Unexpected when I was a kid. Didn't a tree drop a limb onto a chaps head when he tried to chainsaw it down?
 

nuggets

Native
Jan 31, 2010
1,070
0
england
Do plants suffer from a loss of consciousness when they drink alcohol ??? I know i do !!!!!!!! .......... good night !! :rolleyes::lmao::lmao:
 

Geoff Dann

Native
Sep 15, 2010
1,252
31
55
Sussex
www.geoffdann.co.uk
This has been doing my head in all day. I don't know what consciousness is.

It is a bottomless can of worms. If you really want to delve into this, try asking your question here:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/philosophy/

Or just search through the vast number of threads on consciousness. Try to ignore jamest...

;)

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/p...n-the-philosophy-of-consciousness-t24010.html (I'm UndercoverElephant).

Are bees or ants conscious or a collective conscious or neither?

I personally believe they are individually conscious. They aren't telepathic. The behaviour of individuals just ends up being co-ordinated - a colony of ants or bees acts as a superorganism, and this superorganism is known as an emergent phenomenon. It's a bit like the way a hurricane organises itself from individual atoms obeying the laws of physics. Individual ants are just following their instinctive behaviour.
 

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