confusion

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Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,026
108
60
Galashiels
a lot of confusion over names of stuff recently

perhaps a suggestion would be to ask people to look up plants and animals and post a link to a pic of what they are talking about

my main concern is edible plants and fungi where names differ from one part of the country to another

let alone names from other countries

add that to the fact that even other english speaking countries have different climates and conditions, some plants sharing the same common names, others looking similar but one may be indigestible while its "twin" is perfectly edible

i found this site
http://www.bioimages.org.uk/Index.HTM

maybe someone could sticky it in the flora and fauna , and lovely grub sections?

just a suggestion
Tant
 

Moonraker

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 20, 2004
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Tantalus said:
a lot of confusion over names of stuff recently

perhaps a suggestion would be to ask people to look up plants and animals and post a link to a pic of what they are talking about

my main concern is edible plants and fungi where names differ from one part of the country to another

let alone names from other countries

add that to the fact that even other english speaking countries have different climates and conditions, some plants sharing the same common names, others looking similar but one may be indigestible while its "twin" is perfectly edible

i found this site
http://www.bioimages.org.uk/Index.HTM

maybe someone could sticky it in the flora and fauna , and lovely grub sections?

just a suggestion
Tant

The easiest way to avoid confusion Tant is for people to quickly check up the plant they mean and also provide the botanical name for it. This means that such confusion is avoided. And it is a good way to learn about the plants too.

I think the best web site for checking common names and botanical names ( and with a load of other useful data on the plant) is the:

Plants For A Future - Database Search

If we take the 'stickywilly' aka Galium aparine as an example it gives this info:

Galium aparine

including:

Galium aparine

Common Name: Goosegrass

Other Possible Synonyms: G. agreste var. echinospermum[B,P] G. aparine var. echinospermum[B,P] G. aparine var. intermedium[B,P] G. aparine var. minor[B,P] G. aparine var. vaillantii[B,P] G. spurium var. echinospermum[B,P] G. spurium var. vaillantii[B,P] G. vaillantii[B,P] Gallium aparine[Sn6]

Other Common Names: Amor De Hortelano [E], Barweed [H], Bedstraw, Cleavers , Catchweed [H], Cleavers [S,H,L,E], Cleavers Goosegrass [E], Cleever [E], Clivers [H], Eriffe [H], Everlasting Friendship [H], Gia Mara [E], Goosebill [H], Goosegrass [L,H], Grateron [E], Grip Grass [H], Hashishat Al Af'A [E], Hayriffe [H], Hayruff [H], Hedge Clivers [E], Hedgeheriff [H], Kaz Yogurtotu [E], Kleefkruid [D], Loveman [H], Mutton Chops [H], Robin-run-in-the-Grass [H], Scratweed [H], Sticky-willy [B-], Stickywilly [P], Zhu Yang Yang [E],

So you can search the common name you know first and it wil often be included. If not just Google it on google.co.uk and often you find a page with botnaical name also quickly enough.

Even then there can be confusion as botanical nomenclature (scientific naming of the plants) changes from time to time and even these names get altered (as you can see from the database entries above). But generally it is the most definitive way to identify a plant or other organism and also crosses the language barriers as well.

It is useful to have links to plants and also be as clear as possible when we mention plants for consuming or medical use I agree. That said, there are some plants that are commonly known and it would be repetitious to do it in every post so perhaps a top 30 of the most commonly referred to/ utilised plants could be available as a sticky or elsewhere to aid this with a few good links to useful sites as are mentioned above.
 

Ed

Admin
Admin
Aug 27, 2003
5,973
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South Wales Valleys
If you are having a confusion over the names of plants, do a search, for the common name used, in google and you'll get the botanical name.... and loads of site about it. I tend not to get hung up over names.... as long as you can identify them and know there uses/edibility then fine.... I understand that when talking to a group such as this that it is helpful if we all all using the same name, but with the internet as it is today, that is not really a problem..... or you could always ask on the forum in the thread for the botanical name.... someone will know.

:D
Ed
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
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Galashiels
Ed i think you missed the point completely :(

wouldnt it be easier to ask people who start talking about a particular plant animal or fungus to include a link to a pic and or some data ?

saving the whole problem of people talking at completely cross purposes without even realising that they are not even discussing the same thing?

see the thread on chickadees for a perfect example

or the thread about sticky willy for another

it is about being able to communicate :)

Tant
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,938
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S. Lanarkshire
Tantalus said:
......
wouldnt it be easier to ask people who start talking about a particular plant animal or fungus to include a link to a pic and or some data ?
saving the whole problem of people talking at completely cross purposes without even realising that they are not even discussing the same thing?
see the thread on chickadees for a perfect example
or the thread about sticky willy for another
it is about being able to communicate :)

Tant

Sorry Tant, you're right and I'm one of the worst offenders; I'll wheesht. ;)
I like hearing local names for plants though, and their historical uses and the ways that they are taught and remembered.
Cheers,Toddy
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
13
Michigan, USA
Well, I can see some problems with going down this road. What if they don't know the name? What if they just want to post a pretty picture of a plant or animal? Do we say no because they don't know the common name? Do we say no because they don't know the scientific name? It's a slippery little slope here fraught with all kinds of moderation problems.
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,026
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Galashiels
i think ya mustve skipped bits of my posts hoodo :(

most bits actually :rolleyes:

Tantalus said:
it is about being able to communicate

Toddy i love local names and in case ya hadn't noticed i have quite a collection of them. They give us all sorts of clues about uses and history so please keep em coming. (I never called it goosegrass in my life, or cleavers)

I even started a thread on local names for animals in here once

Why does everyone see such big problems instead of helping to find a solution ?

Tant
 

Hoodoo

Full Member
Nov 17, 2003
5,302
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Michigan, USA
In order for there to be a solution, there has to be a problem. I don't see a problem with someone posting a pic of a bird or a plant and not giving the name. In fact, it can lead to an interesting discussion. I agree it's all about communication. Keep it going, don't restrict it.

If someone knows the name, then by all means, they should fee free to list it.
 

Tantalus

Full Member
May 10, 2004
1,026
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Galashiels
actually i think the idea of posting a link to a pic and a little info would help open things up to everybody

many people see things while out and about and do not identify them or even begin to wonder what possible uses they could be put to

surely in the spirit of bushcraft we should be encouraging people to do just this

rather than excluding them by failing to take just a little time to look something up before posting?

Tant
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
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Apr 16, 2003
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Tantalus said:
sadly none of the mods seem in the least bit interested :(

Tant

I think that's a bit unfair Tant :( The mods have their work cut out with the forums, they volunteer their time for free so that this place can be a good place for everyone. If they've not got time to get involved in something like this then that's something to be respected. I know that I've not got time to start creating DB's for something else right now.

The encyclopaedia is being worked on in the background and maybe in the future it's something that could resolve some of the issues that you have about information. For now though some polite requests to people that they post picture, or links with accurate explanations will have to suffice.

Remember that it take s a lot of work to keep this place going and just throwing a new idea up in the air and wanting someone else to run with it is a bit unfair.

i agree that posts should be as accurate as possible and that people posting should take the time to make sure that's the case. At that level the responsibility belongs to the poster and they should make every effort to give as accurate information as possible.

If there are any budding techies out there that want to create a DB for the storage of such information then go ahead and we might be able to work out a way of hosting it etc. If you're interested then PM me and I'll talk about it. But don't expect the mods that give up a massive amount of time already, to take this on as well.
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
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48
Silkstone, Blighty!
I think that is a fair and valid point. For instance, I started an e-book covering the basics of bushcraft. Now, not being an expert myself, I may get things wrong, and if I did, I'd expect everyone on the forum to put me straight. That is the whole idea, constructive criticism. If somebody posts a picture, they may be trying to identify the object, and this forum has a lot of knowledgable folk that would help do that quickly and accurately.

I think a DB would be a good idea, but as you say, why should the mods have to do it? I believe there are a few links about that will tke you to a site to ID fungi, flora and what have you anyway, so lets use their resources. My challenge to you all is to post some really good links for identification of plants, trees, fungi, animals and the like. Good luck!!

Spamel
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
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Spot on ;)

If any of you do want to get involved in sections of the bcuk encyclopaedia then let me know and we'll sort something out, the more the better as we'll get info sorted sooner. To start with we're looking at basics...plants, trees, animals etc..

For now though there’s lots of links and lots of info that can be posted.
 

Tantalus

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May 10, 2004
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sorry for being shirty Tony

just felt that the idea was shot down in flames before anyone had really thought beyond what kinda problems it would create

PM on its way to ya I would love to give a little time back to the forum

Tant
 

Moonraker

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 20, 2004
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spamel said:
I think a DB would be a good idea, but as you say, why should the mods have to do it? I believe there are a few links about that will tke you to a site to ID fungi, flora and what have you anyway, so lets use their resources. My challenge to you all is to post some really good links for identification of plants, trees, fungi, animals and the like. Good luck!!

Spamel
I agree with that Spamel.

Actually I reckon a fairly simple illustrated list of the top 20 - 40 bushcraft plants/ tress would sort out most queries etc.

But for now, and to KISS, what may work well is to put those decent links in one easy place to find, because actually there are already good links to sites but you have to trawl through the whole forum to find them.

Perhaps a thread on 'Plant Identification' links can be created and then 'stickied' on the Lovely Grub forum where people will see it at the top and can add there own suggestions. Then the best say 10 can be chosen and kept at the first post and still allow people to add them over time as replies.

I am also happy to do some legwork and make a shortlist of the best sites if that helps get it going (actually I have that now probably on my Mac ;)

That would mean little work for admins and somewhere we can all contribute a decent links, all in one place.

Just a suggestion :)

Simon
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
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Moonraker said:
But for now, and to KISS, what may work well is to put those decent links in one easy place to find, because actually there are already good links to sites but you have to trawl through the whole forum to find them.

Perhaps a thread on 'Plant Identification' links can be created and then 'stickied' on the Lovely Grub forum where people will see it at the top and can add there own suggestions. Then the best say 10 can be chosen and kept at the first post and still allow people to add them over time as replies.

Done :D

Keep in mind though that the links should be good quality ones ;)
 

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