'Complacent' hillwalker rescued

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Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-16431970

Man rescued from summit of Ben Ledi. The news report said he'd been travelling light, but in this case without map food or compass. He built a snow hole near the summit but had to be walked down by mountain rescue.

From the report he sounded experienced but the weather forecasts lately have been both grim and accurate and it just shows that one of the most important outdoor skills is knowing when to abort a trip.
 

wicca

Native
Oct 19, 2008
1,065
34
South Coast
These Doughnuts are not just land based Doc, an 'experienced qualified' yacht skipper tried to sail up channel with paying guests on board with a possible force 10 forecast the other day!!..Helicopter took the paying 'crew' off and RNLI towed the yacht into Dover. With the recent countrywide high winds and a Forecast possible 10? It's really not too difficult to work out that you're going to get a hammering surely..:confused:
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
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Yorkshire
I'd be interested to hear how light he actually packed, if he's experienced like they say then maybe he did have the essentials, like foil blanket/shovel/torch etc etc.

Are we saying that people should stay off the hills in bad weather altogether?

I've been up Ben Ledi numerous times myself so I can imagine how bleak it can get up there.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
Are we saying that people should stay off the hills in bad weather altogether?

No but I think a measure of common sense should be applied. adequate change of clothes, small amount of emergency rations. AND defiantly MAP AND COMPASS should be the very minimum that anyone takes up in the high places, no matter what the conditions and no matter what the level of experience or familiarity with the area. IMHO
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
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Yorkshire
It's an interesting one, it's a couple of hours from the car park up to the summit on a single path, I think if I was out for a morning or afternoon bimble I'd be carrying very little myself. I certainly wouldn't take spare clothes, stoves and food, maybe just snacks, waterproofs and drinks.

I expect he underestimated the snow levels on the top and got overwhelmed with the situation, I don't think complacent is the right term though.
 

Doc

Need to contact Admin...
Nov 29, 2003
2,109
10
Perthshire
Obviously we don't know all the details but it looks like he was familiar with the mountain, and not taking a map to a familiar area is understandable.

However, navigating an area by familiarity depends on being able to see, and in snow and high winds visibility is often awful, and it is as easy to get disorientated as if you were blindfolded. But the forecast should tell you when such conditions are expected.
 

udamiano

On a new journey
While I agree for an afternoon bimble into the low country, a few snacks and a set of rain gear is all I would take, I've been in Mountain area when its been beautiful and sunny at the bottom and a total white-out near the top, and of course temp drops at altitude. While Im not suggesting the full Chris Bonnington, walking in the Mountains in Winter...........

a simple meths stove (trangia burner, with a honey stove) and a little metal cup, doesn't weigh much, some hot chocolate, a few teabags, boiled sweets, an emergency shelter, and strobe, all fit in a 30lt day pack with room to spare
 

Spaniel man

Native
Apr 28, 2007
1,033
2
Somerset
There's a limited amount of info in that article, but I have to say, I'm with you there Rich. I too have been up Ben Ledi, and it's not a major undertaking, and quite close to the road, with a clear track to the top. I sometimes travel very light, but make sure that I've got the essentials on me. That might not mean full on overnight gear, but enough to keep me safe, warm and fed for a while. I certainly would have had a map and compass, and I carry a GPS unit everywhere in the hills. I think that, while the guy might have made a couple of dubious decisions, maybe the article is a bit harsh..
 

nigeltm

Full Member
Aug 8, 2008
484
16
54
south Wales
Stories like this make me think we should "means test" rescues.

For those who have taken reasonable precautions and have had an accident or are a despondant and can't be held responsible for their actions I'm happy to turn out and spend as long as it takes on a shout.

For those who act like complete arses here's an invoice!
 

Scots_Charles_River

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 12, 2006
3,277
41
paddling a loch
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He was a fell runner, so was lightly dressed. Although there is a path, it would have been covered in snow, I saw it from Dumyat. The visibility was good, above the summit till at least sunset. So I'm thinking the wind got him and he dug a snowhole. I was up Dumyat and had a gore tex shell, fleece and thermals on with a balaclava. That was whilst sitting out of the wind. The wind was very cold.
 

nigeltm

Full Member
Aug 8, 2008
484
16
54
south Wales
Which does the Ben Ledi guy get Nigel?

I don't know about the situation to say for certain.

But.

He didn't have the most basic navigation equipment, warm clothing for the times he would be static or even any food. On top of that I assume he knew the weather conditions and that there was a significant amount of snow on the ground.

On that basis I would put him in the "****" category and I would hope he would make a sizable donation to the MR team that went to get him.

Too often we see people who are totally unprepared heading off on to Pen-y-fan. Most are lucky enough to get back to their car without issue (although they may be a bit colder and wetter than they need to be). There again there are those who don't. If they had prepared properly they may have made it back or, worse case scenario, hunkered down for a few hours for the weather to improve so they could self rescue.

In the next month I will spend hours holding a bucket outside a few Tesco stores to raise funds for our MRT. It is also an opportunity for us to educate the public on how to stay safe on the hill. On top of that I'm arranging other fundraising events, writing corporate sponsorship begging letters and more. All of this because search and rescue charities in England and Wales do not recieve any central government funding. We may get the occasional grant but in the main every team funds itself.

When I go to a callout for someone/thing that could have been avoided with some common sense and a bit of preperation, I look at the MRT volunteers. They give their time without pay, they also fundraise, they pay for their own personal equipment (no refunds when you rip your GorTex jacket on barbed wire), often they contribute to the cost their training and often risk their own safety. We even pay the line rental for our pagers. We do all this and don't look for personal publicity or recognition.

I find it frustrating when you are called out to an **** who has put themselves, or even their family, in a dangerous situation. Especially when 2 days later you are called out to search for a squaddie with PTSD who takes their own life before you can find them.

Rant over (I feel better now!)
 

Spaniel man

Native
Apr 28, 2007
1,033
2
Somerset
He was a fell runner, so was lightly dressed. Although there is a path, it would have been covered in snow, I saw it from Dumyat. The visibility was good, above the summit till at least sunset. So I'm thinking the wind got him and he dug a snowhole. I was up Dumyat and had a gore tex shell, fleece and thermals on with a balaclava. That was whilst sitting out of the wind. The wind was very cold.

Ah, that explains a lot. I've often wondered about fell runners. I've been in some extremely remote areas, and seen blokes happily trotting by with tights and trainers on, and not much more than a bum bag and a bottle of water. I wouldn't like to have that little kit on me, especially if I twisted an ankle. (which surely is more likely if you are running) I think walkers tend to be better equipped. Sometimes knowledge and experience is no substitute for having the proper kit.
I guess that puts him in the 'A**e' category then, and a generous donation to the MRT would be a good gesture....
 

Scots_Charles_River

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Dec 12, 2006
3,277
41
paddling a loch
www.flickr.com
I could see the snow, from about 1500ft, from near my house 21miles away !

I reckon he got cold when he encountered the snow, slowed down getting to the summit, felt really cold, dug a snowhole then called his wife. Good 3/4 bars on your phone up there.

Everytime I go up Dumyat I meet hillrunners, they normally have a bumbag with pertex top, mars bar and phone. Not all do though.

I only hill run in summer.

Sometimes a call out triggers a good donation, see here http://www.lamm.co.uk/2010/accident.html
 
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John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,108
2,843
66
Pembrokeshire
The fact that he needed rescue - without being injured or being ill - says that he did something wrong in the matter of being prepared for the forcast conditions.
Makes him an ***** in my book :)
In the few days that I ever did any running in the hills a map, compass, whistle, FAK, spare top and waterproofs, alongside some spare food and drink in a small pack were my basic kit.
And I always tried to get a forcast for the day in as much detail as possible - binning the trip if it looked too iffy!
And that was just in summer!
When hill walking I always carried enough kit to endure an enforced night out if it came to it - the weight was just accepted and treated as good training for more major trips and backpacking outings.
As a wise (ish) man once said "Travel light - freeze at night!"
 

coln18

Native
Aug 10, 2009
1,125
3
Loch Lomond, Scotland
I agree with Shewie, climbed Ben Ledi myself, not even a munro and a fairly straight forward corbett, but as we all know if you climb the same hill 2 days in a row, they can often seem like totally different mountains, add to the fact that it only takes you being slightly under the weather with cold winds and snow and your decision making can very easily go to pot. I always think its too easy to criticise people in these situations, disaster and mistakes are always just round the corner when you climb mountains, walking a mile in someones shoes and all that comes to mind.

There is always a decision to make when climbing mountains, even experienced climbers will have to make a judgement call sometimes, either go in light and fast to climb the mountain in order to get out in one day or take lots of kit and slowly climb and camp over night, although most deaths are caused with the going in light and fast idea..
 

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