Closed cell foam sleep mat for winter use?

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Jared

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Sep 8, 2005
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Lars of Survival Russia just put out a video yesterday of him overnighting in -20C.


I suspect it's somewhat down to how big a fire you can or are prepared to make.
 
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Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Thank you for the video!
:biggrin:

That guy is really one of the best.
I like the courage to make public videos with such an accent, his Wehrmacht cap, and his chaotic camp with the old Dutch sleeping bag. His new boots are outstanding indeed!

He could of course also just buy a new Carinthia Defence 6, or Defence 4 and Tropen, or a Snugpak SF complete system and sleep without fire 8 hours like a baby on his two mats at -20*C.

But the video shows very well how good a long log fire works. Such a used army surplus bag surely doesn't function so well. I recently could read somewhere that one tried it out in summer conditions and had a pretty fresh night. In winter times one should use a new correctly rated sleeping bag of course, and no army garbage.
 
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Lean'n'mean

Nomad
Nov 18, 2020
421
175
France
The German Army boots that usual soldiers can use for 2 years last only 6 month in my use. Before the Corona lockdown I really walked and travelled a lot, nearly all the year round.

Ich liebe das Bundeswehr kampfstiefel. The modell 2007 is ok but I was a big fan of the modell 2000.
 
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Erbswurst

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Mar 5, 2018
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Oh! A German speaker!
Are you a Frog or a Brit?
Or an Alsacien?
Where do you live in France?

The 2007 is OK if you see it as an alternative to a usual rubber boot.
Well waxed it is really waterproof but far more comfortable.

But it doesn't last as long as an old 2000 one, a stiched Austrian one or the Rangers BM 65 Argueyrolles.
The BW Kampfstiefel 2007 is a throw away article. The maker doesn't matter in this case, the Haix BW Kampfstiefel are nearly as bad as the older ones.
 
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Erbswurst

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Mar 5, 2018
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Cool!

They seem to make the GERMAN ARMY FOLDABLE MAT for British parachute regiments!
Here it is called Adventure 4 XL.


The German army mat, former made by Molan / Trecolan in Bremen is out of production, because they unfortunately destroyed the machine when they went bankrupt. There are no currently made new original German Army mats any more, as far as I am informed

That's a very interesting find here (although that's more a summer or three seasons mat).

I need to get one, to become sure, if it's really the same, but it looks like it.

The other mats are very interesting too:
One is made especially durable for the
BRITISH ARMY, NATO MAT 10 XXL, R-value 2.82, thickness 10mm, 550g, 190 x 60 cm, a bit less warm though.
Others are warmer, but a bit less durable as they told me at the telephone.

That is a really interesting maker!

Thank you for the recommendation!
 
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SSGN_Doc

Tenderfoot
Jan 26, 2021
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Thermarest Z-lite and Ridgerest SOLite pads are pretty good insulation with a reflective layer to help boost the R value a bit. 2.0 to 2.8 R value. Z-lite seems a bit easier to fold up and unfold and have it lay flat or strap under a pack. The Ridgerest rolls up but has the higher R value. Used mine on a cargo plane floor on a flight from Alaska to Germany.
 
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Erbswurst

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Mar 5, 2018
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I think regarding such kind of mats you can't put them over each other and simply double the R-value, like one can do it with usual flat mats.
One on top of a flat mat may work well perhaps.

I think I need for -20 to -25*C an R-value between 5 and 6.

And because I like a larger mat than the narrow Dutch one I currently think about simply getting TWO British Army mats.
That might be a bit less handy and fast to roll up.
But should I want to put them into the rucksack or attach them at the side of it, two symmetrical stored identical mats are probably the best option regarding the rucksack balance.

I didn't yet decide if I want to keep the option open to carry the sleeping bag on top of the main compartment under the flap. But if I want to do this, two British army mats symmetrically inside or outside seem a good idea to me.

During the last month I digged out my old stuff and cleaned it. And I found so incredibly much just by aging degraded equipment, that I currently tend to buy as good as nothing new anymore that isn't made according to NATO specifications.
 

cmarkod

Full Member
Feb 18, 2016
22
2
Manchester
You might be better off using a combination of a closed-cell foam mat and then something like an Exped mattress on top. I've found the Savotta mat to be excellent in all seasons, as it protects the different 'comfy' mat on top of it, which I choose according to the prevailing temperature. It's probably a more flexible set-up than choosing a single mat for particular conditions.
This is my approach too. I use the Savotta under my bivvi and I have a Klimit Inertia Ozone mat for inside. The Klimit only adds 260g and offers much improved comfort and has a built in pillow plus increases the insulation too. Has worked well for me down to -14 which is the lowest I've managed to get out in.
 
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Erbswurst

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Mar 5, 2018
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@cmarkod

My Klymit Inertia O Zone RECON , sand, has not the holes cut out, the material is still there but flat, the rest is identic with the skeleton version.

Unfortunately I did leave it in Cologne one year ago with my other current equipment, because I brought old clothing in a large rucksack by train to Berlin where I got caught by the Covid lock downs and didn't yet go to Cologne to pick my stuff up, because I have enough of other equipment and clothing in Berlin.

That's why I did not yet try out how my Klymit mat works in cold conditions.

So, it very interesting to read your experiance here.

How do you pump your Klymit mat below the freezing point to avoid freezing breath moisture in it?
 
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cmarkod

Full Member
Feb 18, 2016
22
2
Manchester
@cmarkod

My Klymit Inertia O Zone RECON , sand, has not the holes cut out, the material is still there but flat, the rest is identic with the skeleton version.

Unfortunately I did leave it in Cologne one year ago with my other current equipment, because I brought old clothing in a large rucksack by train to Berlin where I got caught by the Covid lock downs and didn't yet go to Cologne to pick my stuff up, because I have enough of other equipment and clothing in Berlin.

That's why I did not yet try out how my Klymit mat works in cold conditions.

So, it very interesting to read your experiance here.

How do you pump your Klymit mat below the freezing point to avoid freezing breath moisture in it?
Yeah, I've never been a fan of blowing into mats just for that reason. I use a roll top bag that fills the mat in a couple of squeezes: https://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.c.../klymit-rapid-air-pump-push-pull-valve-p12044
 
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Danceswithhelicopters

Full Member
Sep 7, 2004
491
47
Scotland
I'm running the following set up after much bivvying and camping. Like most I see the benefits and contrasts between foam and inflatable. Never quite enough padding in a foam mat, never as comfy or warm. Slightly bulky but bomb proof a easily cleanable...no worrying about deflation or wear and tear if it was an expensive inflatable.

Inflatables ...expensive, thicker, warm, more compact, can be punctured , in general take a long tome to inflate and on some that moisture reduces the effectiveness of the insulation (Exped Down feather filling for example).

There are work-arounds like foot pumps, hand pumps, electrical pumps and big-assed inflation bags.

After a bit of pottering using using a selection of pads my solution is the Thermarest Z Lite Sol folding pad AND a Nemo Vector Insulated Large mat.

They work in concert with the Z Lite against the ground as it is cleanable and can be hosed down and absorbs any stones and sticks. Over the top is the foot pump inflated Nemo which has reflective insulation so no issues with material compression or dampness affecting the insulation R Value-and no falling unconscious after blowing up a meaty pad!

Z lite benefits also include clean bivy bag so it maintains waterproofness, it is available in green and Coyote brown so it doesn't offend nature and the interface between the 2 pans is 'sticky' so no sliding around. the Z lite can also be used ans a folded sit pad or if folded in half a chair insulator.

Vector is warm, thick and quick to inflate with small pack size, no extra bits needed like pumps and its width is luxuriously wide which means that rolling around doesn't equal rolling off.

In conclusion I don't think each style of mat works in cold weather but combined they are a winner.

Nemo Vector

Thermarest Z Lite Sol
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Berlin
If one puts for example two British army closed cell foam roll mats over each other it becomes also warm, because the R- value is doubled.

It is less comfortable than an airmat of course but otherwise more durable.

My problem with the airmats is, that they aren't spark resistant. That's no problem if I can survive with just the closed cell foam mat underneath, but in really cold conditions it might become a bit dangerous.

Lower than -15 *C it's really a good idea to sleep by the fire.
 
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Clarky14

New Member
Mar 2, 2021
1
0
53
Belfast
If one puts for example two British army closed cell foam roll mats over each other it becomes also warm, because the R- value is doubled.

It is less comfortable than an airmat of course but otherwise more durable.

My problem with the airmats is, that they aren't spark resistant. That's no problem if I can survive with just the closed cell foam mat underneath, but in really cold conditions it might become a bit dangerous.

Lower than -15 *C it's really a good idea to sleep by the fire.
Did you get the Dutch mat? If yes what do you think of it?
 

Erbswurst

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 5, 2018
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Berlin
Not yet. But I will buy it soon.
The main question is if it is too narrow.
 

matarius777

Member
Aug 29, 2019
10
3
56
Lancaster
Thank you for the video!
:biggrin:

That guy is really one of the best.
I like the courage to make public videos with such an accent, his Wehrmacht cap, and his chaotic camp with the old Dutch sleeping bag. His new boots are outstanding indeed!

He could of course also just buy a new Carinthia Defence 6, or Defence 4 and Tropen, or a Snugpak SF complete system and sleep without fire 8 hours like a baby on his two mats at -20*C.

But the video shows very well how good a long log fire works. Such a used army surplus bag surely doesn't function so well. I recently could read somewhere that one tried it out in summer conditions and had a pretty fresh night. In winter times one should use a new correctly rated sleeping bag of course, and no army garbage.
It’s not actually a Wehrmacht cap, it’s a Finnish army field cap, known a the “blood ladle”. It is very similar to the Wehrmacht cap though. I think that particular version is the M65.
 
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