Chasing the Ember

  • Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.

pace

Member
Sep 6, 2006
15
0
42
Woodley, Reading
Thanks, I'll give that a try, my notch is not that big at the moment.

I've just broken another bow, so need to go for another walk and find a suitable branch.

I did just manage to get a smoking piece of dust from the set onto a piece of tissue... only stayed smoking for a second tho, and didnt glow or anything.
 

Nod

Forager
Oct 10, 2003
168
1
Land of the Angles
I agree with Rich59, the notch needs to go right through to the floor, and then you need a scrap of bark or similar to placed underneath it, to catch the dust etc.

Maybe try a different flatter piece of wood (i just split my willow branch down into two/three sections so they were nice and flat and ready for use)

Also the string looks like it goes round the drill a few times, or maybe it's just the picture angle etc.

I wrap the string round the drill once only. It might not make any differecne to to you, but it might be worth a try.

It really is worth all the effort to get this under your belt. It might seem like a real royal pain at the moment, but once you do it you'll be so chuffed it's unreal. Keep up the good efforts Pace :)
 

pace

Member
Sep 6, 2006
15
0
42
Woodley, Reading
Well, it has somehow been nearly 3 years since my original post.

I won't lie and say I've been trying, I did for a while, but got tired of it, and not suprisingly I haven't got anywhere.

I would still like to crack this, is there anyone in Herts or nearby who can do this and would be willing to show me how?
 

fireman sam

Member
Jan 26, 2009
33
0
the woods
Hi there Pace,

Here's a couple of really helpful video clips for both the bow drill and hand drill fire lighting method, which were alot of help to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeNbTOQANdY&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sposVXuYco&feature=channel_page

With regards to using the power tool to test materials, I find that it doesn't work as the spinning motion is only in one direction. At first glance you might think that this wouldn't be an issue, but the problem with this is that it tends to 'polish' all the tiny fibers it's being exerted against (on the board) in one direction - thus reducing friction. The board's fibers need to be pushed one way for a few seconds, and then back again in the opposite direction before they get a chance to become too smoth, ie 'polished' . This is acheived by the clockwise/anticlockwise motion of the fire by friction method, but not by the power tool. It's a bit like smoothing a carpet in one direction - all the fibres will face one way - which is nice for a carpet but no good for a hearth board!

I'd advise you to dicth the oak and try some lime on lime, sycamore on sycamore or ivy on ivy - for the bow drill, and for the hand drill try some elder on a clematis board or some budlia on a clematis board.

Best of luck!
 

pace

Member
Sep 6, 2006
15
0
42
Woodley, Reading
just spent another few hours in the woods with a knife and some para chord... wood too damp to even get smoke

i think i'll just start carrying matches
 

al21

Nomad
Aug 11, 2006
320
0
In a boat somewhere
Don't give up, you've invested too much time to let it go now.

I thought I'd become quite successful a few years ago and then seemed to lose the knack. A couple of months ago I thought I'd have another go so found some suitable sized Elder and Ivy for drill and hearth. Last week they seemed suitably dry so gave it a whirl and bingo, success!

Something I've noticed, and those more proficient than me can confirm or deny this, but it seems to me I have more success with a fresh hearth (by which I mean the circular bit you drill into not the whole bit of wood) than going back to a hearth that is already pretty well burnt out.

Another question from me which might also help you. Should the notch be toward you or away from you, or doesn't it matter?

Anyway, best of luck Pace!
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
just spent another few hours in the woods with a knife and some para chord... wood too damp to even get smoke

i think i'll just start carrying matches

Don't give up. Remember, what one man can do, another can do. there is absolutely no reason at all why you can't achieve this, the frustration is there for everyone learning this, believe me but you will overcome it. A 61 year old woman who had never spent time outdoors achieved an ember on a course I recently went on. She made her own set from trees in the wood and then made an ember a few days later after hanging her set up near the fire for a few days and practising between lessons. Get yourself some lime for a drill and hearth board and try hazel drill on willow or willow on willow. Check out the threads on the forums and you will do it. I taught myself from books and a crappy dial up connection when I was over in Germany. It took me weeks to gain success and sometimes I still fail. Don't leave it another three years, get it cracked this summer! Store your drills and hearths on the dash of your car to dry them right out!

Don't give up, you've invested too much time to let it go now.

I thought I'd become quite successful a few years ago and then seemed to lose the knack. A couple of months ago I thought I'd have another go so found some suitable sized Elder and Ivy for drill and hearth. Last week they seemed suitably dry so gave it a whirl and bingo, success!

Something I've noticed, and those more proficient than me can confirm or deny this, but it seems to me I have more success with a fresh hearth (by which I mean the circular bit you drill into not the whole bit of wood) than going back to a hearth that is already pretty well burnt out.

Another question from me which might also help you. Should the notch be toward you or away from you, or doesn't it matter?

Anyway, best of luck Pace!

No difference at all, but it is best to carve it in whatever part of the wood you can see from your drilling position. When I drill in the text book fashion, I carve the notch pointing away from me. When I use the "cabbaged knees" position I carve the notch towards me. More often then not though, the notch points towards me regardless because I've just got used to doing it that way! Somebody may say that the notch should be positioned towards the wind or away from the wind for various reasons, who knows? As far as I know, it makes no difference at all apart from what you can see whilst drilling.
 

al21

Nomad
Aug 11, 2006
320
0
In a boat somewhere
No difference at all, but it is best to carve it in whatever part of the wood you can see from your drilling position. When I drill in the text book fashion, I carve the notch pointing away from me. When I use the "cabbaged knees" position I carve the notch towards me. More often then not though, the notch points towards me regardless because I've just got used to doing it that way! Somebody may say that the notch should be positioned towards the wind or away from the wind for various reasons, who knows? As far as I know, it makes no difference at all apart from what you can see whilst drilling.

Thanks for the reply. I thought it worth asking as I could do with all the assistance I can get to become more consistent at ember creation.

Not sure about the "cabbaged knees" position though. What page in the Karma Sutra is that then? :)
 

troy ap De skog

Tenderfoot
May 30, 2005
80
0
In a Shack
magic trick to friction fire lighting 1/2 pinch of fine dry sand, same of fine powder charcoal in to the dip in the board where you spindels go.
woods i prefer to use; hazzle sindel and a willow or small leaved elm board for a bow drill.
And mullen or elder spindels with clematus board on hand drills

but it works with almost any wood in the bow drill if you remembe to use the sand and charcoal
 

eraaij

Settler
Feb 18, 2004
557
61
Arnhem
Something I've noticed, and those more proficient than me can confirm or deny this, but it seems to me I have more success with a fresh hearth (by which I mean the circular bit you drill into not the whole bit of wood) than going back to a hearth that is already pretty well burnt out.

That depends. I often find that the quality of the boards can differ with the drill depth. You may encounter a piece of rot or (with pine boards), a resinous area or some fungus infection.

My recent experiments with some dry garden conifer board/pine drill combination were quite succesfull:

DSC_2369.JPG


Board and drill are destroyed now - I know it works well. Yes, Delbach - that's your knife ;)
 

Mountainwalker

Forager
Oct 30, 2008
124
0
Sydney
This is a great thread, I have really enjoyed reading about the frustrations of others as i am experiencing a similar scenario. I have only had a few goes this month at the bowdrill technique and you guessed it, no luck yet. From the mechanical perspective everything is working fine, I think my issue relates to the materials being used. Living in Australia I am struggling to find a suitable hearthboard. If I understand correctly the hearthboard should be a soft wood?
 

Mountainwalker

Forager
Oct 30, 2008
124
0
Sydney
Hi there Pace,

Here's a couple of really helpful video clips for both the bow drill and hand drill fire lighting method, which were alot of help to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeNbTOQANdY&feature=channel_page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sposVXuYco&feature=channel_page

With regards to using the power tool to test materials, I find that it doesn't work as the spinning motion is only in one direction. At first glance you might think that this wouldn't be an issue, but the problem with this is that it tends to 'polish' all the tiny fibers it's being exerted against (on the board) in one direction - thus reducing friction. The board's fibers need to be pushed one way for a few seconds, and then back again in the opposite direction before they get a chance to become too smoth, ie 'polished' . This is acheived by the clockwise/anticlockwise motion of the fire by friction method, but not by the power tool. It's a bit like smoothing a carpet in one direction - all the fibres will face one way - which is nice for a carpet but no good for a hearth board!

I'd advise you to dicth the oak and try some lime on lime, sycamore on sycamore or ivy on ivy - for the bow drill, and for the hand drill try some elder on a clematis board or some budlia on a clematis board.

Best of luck!


Thanks for posting those vid links, a lot easier than looking at a few diagrams in a book.
 
Evening all, I need a bit of help...

I have been trying for a few days now to make fire by friction, and failing. I've tried various woods including poplar, oak, hazel and some others i dont even recognise.

I have been using a drill (of the cordless persuasion) to test and see if anything is likely to come of it, rather than giving myself blisters without any promise of a result... and aside from a lot of smoke and black powder, have failed to produce anything with potential.

I plan to sort it with the drill first, get that bit figured, then move on to hand drilling.

I am using a piece about 1.5cm diameter fixed into the drill bit, and sharpened to a rounded point. I have been using a slot in the side of the dip in the hearth board to catch the ember, but there has so far only been black dust.

I have also been wondering about the method involving a groove and a scraping action... is that likely to prove any easier than the bow drill?[/QUOT

The action of first in one direction, and then the other is important for getting the charred tinder dust out of the slot. The softer the drill and fireboard the quicker this will work. If you are producing black dust, then you must be close,
I would suggest getting everything right first, the drill-bit, the fire-board, and the hearth/tinder board. Then keep at it until you get an ember. Do not stop too soon!
Le Loup. PS. See other posts on this subject.
 

masongary44

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 6, 2004
127
0
48
Leeds, England
I first succeeded on a Woodsmoke course using Sycamore but later, due to availability (my then in-laws cut one down) I used Ash for all the components and had great sucess. I make my drill a little over thumb thickness, use the point of my knife to guage how big to cut the notch and make sure I find something waxy to put in the bearing block to help cut down on un-wanted friction.

I also find that longer, slower strokes seem to work better for me than shorter faster ones, but I get the feeling that it is all a matter of personal preferences and technique.

Like most things bushcraft practice, experience and experimentation are the keys. It took me hours of continuous attempts the first time. The forest was full of squeaking and swearing as students tried and failed... but the feeling of getting it right makes it all worth while. Stick with it, you will not regret it.
 

VtBlackdog

Tenderfoot
Nov 12, 2008
90
1
VT~USA
Pace-
-strip the bark off the drill
-carve the drill so it has flat sides, like an octagon shape; this gives the string more grip
-point the notch into the wind; if its not blowing, then point the notch away from yourself and blow on the dust pile while drilling to help fan up an ember
-try fluffed up jute for tinder to catch the dust
-poplar has worked good for me, it needs to be well seasoned.
-rub the upper tip of the drill in your ear, earwax for lubrication
-it works best for me to put the hearth on a chair, and drill in a standing postition with left foot up holding the hearth, with left hand locked into top of shoe for stability
-I make my drill the same diamiter as my index finger and use a glass candle holder for the bearing block

when you get it the first time, it will be worth the effort!
I got it to work on June 22nd, and have 25+ fires so far!
 

Lake

Member
Jun 7, 2009
47
0
.
Hi ! I'm new here. My favourite combination (Bow drill) is Hazel (Corylus avellana) on Willow (Salix alba) -->on pics
Also Hazel (Corylus avellana) on Poplar (Populus nigra) works well. Allways use softwood as fireboard.

9kyrtg.jpg


2vjr67m.jpg
 

TwoSticks

Member
Aug 15, 2009
30
0
Northumberland, UK
Something I've noticed, and those more proficient than me can confirm or deny this, but it seems to me I have more success with a fresh hearth (by which I mean the circular bit you drill into not the whole bit of wood) than going back to a hearth that is already pretty well burnt out.
Yes - I'd agree with you about this. If the hearth has a deep socket (ie the hole has been used a couple of times before) then the drill sits lower within it. This creates greater friction because the drill is not only in contact with the hearth on the bottom of the drilling face, but also on the vertical side of the drill within the deeper socket.

Pace, if you haven't succeeded yet, keep going! There are many variables which all need to be balanced out with each other in the right proportions, and once you've learned how these interact by getting your first few embers you'll wonder how you ever couldn't manage to get it so easily!
 

BCUK Shop

We have a a number of knives, T-Shirts and other items for sale.

SHOP HERE