Charcoal powder - ultimate tinder? Join in and see what we can do.

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rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
For the last few weeks I have been finding the odd moment to explore how I could create a tinder that has a chance of catching the weakest of sparks such as with "bamboo and china" or "flint on flint".

I have come to the thought that very fine charcoal powder/ dust - appropriately aerated might just fit the bill. There is literature to support these thoughts.

This leaves a number of practical challenges:-

1) Getting the finest charcoal dust.

I have had a few goes at this. I have taken some charcoals and ground them in a glass jar with the end of a 1 inch diameter stick. I tried 3 sources so far:- a) lumpwood charcoal bought commercially b) small bits of charcoal left over from a bonfire c) charred dead deciduous leaves. In all cases some ends up as fine dust that can air float, then there are larger grades that make up the majority.

Any suggestions/ advice on getting a significant quantity of the finest dust, and without the bigger bits?

Then the actual dust varied hugely in its ability to light from a heat source. Initially using a flame the samples from commercial lumpwood would not combust hardly at all! The leaf and the bonfire chars were much better. The leaf char seemed the best. I might try charring toilet roll as it is already quite aerated and should give a pretty finely divided char.

I wondered if "activated charcoal" was what I really needed - charcoal that has a huge surface area by being very irregular down to microscopic scale. I think citric acid from fruit and then reheating the char would possibly do this.

Any advice on the best sources and the best forms of charcoal dust?

2) Getting air gaps between the char dust particles.

My original vision was to make a sponge/ cake/ bread with high content of char dust - cooked and dried. I have come across "charcoal cake" but that is to eat.

I learned that I might distribute char dust in fluff. I thought I might get the char dust to stick to downy feathers.

I haven't yet tried the cakes/ bread. I found the fluff and the feather ideas interesting. Once lit they grew the glow nicely, but they so far won't light from a flint and steel spark. I need much better than that to get lucky with much weaker sparks.

Comment

I could play with this all winter but I might not get time, so I thought I would share the ideas and perhaps find others want to have a go at some of the ideas here.
 
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udamiano

On a new journey
Hi Rich,

The finer charcoal tends to be made from coconut husks, there natural low moisture content to start with allows for a much finer grade of charcoal, and is the main reason its used for medical grade activated charcoal.
i've tried making activated charcoal before using a number of ways, and to be honest, your better of buying it in from the states. the two main processes required to make it are either a strong nitric acid or high temperature steam and an air tight oven capable of 900 degs C, either system produces a very unsafe environment to be near, unless done with industrial machinery.

The second problem I think your going to encounter is moisture content, and the water content in the air, charcoal that dry will naturally draw water from the air and thus become over time less dry.

I would however think more in term of an treatment that enhances the sparks performance once it lands on the tinder. for example a wick can be treated with saltpetre to produce a slow match...etc

keep it up though, it sounds like a interesting project, and I for one would like to hear how it evolves

Day
 
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lannyman8

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 18, 2009
4,005
3
Dark side of the Moon
for very fine charcoal dust look on evilbay for ball milled charcoal, its air dust grade, or try chared straw then put it in the blender for as long as you can, its good for the process of gunpowder as it has a fast burn rate so should work well with your idea and catch a small spark....

use the straw just like how you make char cloth, and jobs a fish, then all you need to do is catch that tiny spark...

all the best..

chris.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,972
4,621
S. Lanarkshire
Rich I have bamboo charcoal, and I'll happily send you some to play with.

What about mycopodium powder ? Finest organic particulate stuff ?

cheers,
Mary
 

Stringmaker

Native
Sep 6, 2010
1,891
1
UK
I recently tried a similar thing with cramp balls.

I have a small wooden mortar and pestle and ground one up as fine as I could. The end result looked like charcoal dust and it certainly caught a spark from flint/steel but I haven't tried colder sparks.

Good luck!
 

rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
I recently tried a similar thing with cramp balls.

I have a small wooden mortar and pestle and ground one up as fine as I could. The end result looked like charcoal dust and it certainly caught a spark from flint/steel but I haven't tried colder sparks.

Good luck!
Cramp balls I have broken up to successfully get better flint and steel spark catch.

Hmm - an interesting one there.

I wonder if grinding up char cloth might be interesting - the basic structure is fine filaments of cotton wool, so could make a pretty fine powder.

Then, I need some way of stabilising it (with some air spaces between the grains) so it won't blow away when in close proximity to moving stones. An aerated spongy thing?
 
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rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
for very fine charcoal dust look on evilbay for ball milled charcoal, its air dust grade, or try chared straw then put it in the blender for as long as you can, its good for the process of gunpowder as it has a fast burn rate so should work well with your idea and catch a small spark....

use the straw just like how you make char cloth, and jobs a fish, then all you need to do is catch that tiny spark...

all the best..

chris.
I am nervous of using the kitchen blender in case I get fine charcoal powder into the works and wreck the machine. I do have to share it with the kitchen!!
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,972
4,621
S. Lanarkshire
All you need to do is somehow charge the particles, and then puff them onto a suitable surface.

How about one of the little screw top plastic squirty bottles, put the powdered charcoaled whatever into that and shake vigorously. Loads of staticy charcoal, squeeze the bottle, that will puff it out and it 'should' cling to something previously deemed as ideal :D But they'll do so in such a loose way that there's loads of suitable air for combustion around them :D

No ?

cheers,
M

p.s. I have a little cast iron mortar and pestle set that I keep for stuff like charcoal grinding. It wasn't expensive, under a fiver from the Julian Graves store in one of the shopping centres.
M
 

rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
I have now achieved an easy way of making a fine particled charcoal dust. Start with charred cotton cloth (e.g. old jeans then charred in semi closed tin). Crush this with pestle and morter - you quickly get a fairly uniformly fine particled product. (Word of warning - make sure it is cool and not glowing anywhere before grinding - otherwise you get a jar of many spreading coals!!)

I have mixed this with a little fluff from my tumble drier and got a grey/ black fluffy powdery material. I did get this to catch a flint and steel spark - once in 20 minutes of trying.

It is pretty unstable and readily sheds its powdery part.

I then played about with my "2 stones" - 2 flints - one a rounded pebble from the beach, the other an angled piece from my garden. Loads of tiny sparks easily produced but they don't fly - momentary existence at the point of impact only.

My best theory is that if I can get "perfect tinder" wedged between a couple of bits of angled edged flint and strike/ scrape this across a large, rough flat or rounded flint (large beach rounded flint) then I might just stand a chance.

I really need my dusty charcoal to be in solid block that can withstand a bit of vibration from stones hitting/ scraping together! Hence the hunt for a "charcoal cake" type product.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
...I would however think more in term of an treatment that enhances the sparks performance once it lands on the tinder. for example a wick can be treated with saltpetre to produce a slow match...etc...

Charcoal and saltpeter? Getting very close (only one ingredient away) to black powder. LOL THAT would definitely make a good tender.
 

the interceptor boy

Life Member
Mar 12, 2008
485
0
Angleterre.
try mixing a little bit of fine charcoal dust with fine cramp balls dust and add a little bit of oil as a binding agent, and see what comes up. cheers the interceptor boy.
 

rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
I may yet re-invent the humble match! But maybe I might get a strikeable "glow stick".

I can get a flood of tiny sparks rubbing my flint on sand paper. So, that suggests powdered stone mixed in with my "charcoal cake" could be how it gets minute sparks onto the charcoal dust

I think I need:-

- Probably a glue
- Charcoal dust - majority product
- powdered stone
- air mixed in

Anyone good at making a glue can advise me on trapping a large amount of microscopic bubbles of air into a hard set glue with no water content and quite water repellant?
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,980
14
In the woods if possible.
...Anyone good at making a glue can advise me on trapping a large amount of microscopic bubbles of air into a hard set glue with no water content and quite water repellant?

Years ago when I worked in explosives R&D we used to use hydrogen peroxide to do exactly that, although the hard setting stuff was a hard-setting explosive resin, not really a glue. I forget what catalyst we mixed with the H2O2 to get it to foam, I think it might have been a manganese oxide but don't quote me on that. I've still got my lab notebook somewhere, but heaven knows when I'll next come across it.
 

bigegg

Member
Jan 24, 2012
15
0
leeds
a ball mill is pretty easy to make -
baby milk tin, or any other tin with a replaceable lid - pringles tube?
half a dozen or so marbles.
then you just need a method of rotating it slowly for hours on end.
will grind your charcoal as fine as you like.
 

bigegg

Member
Jan 24, 2012
15
0
leeds
having said that -
toner from a photocopier/laser printer is very finely ground carbon, and a quick google throws up lots of "flammable" warnings.
maybe that will work?
 

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