Canada next year - how to keep bears away

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Shewie

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Dec 15, 2005
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Hopefully we`re getting over to Canada again next summer and I want to try and get a few sneaky nights out during our stay. I`ll probably be looking around the Banff area as it`s one of our favourite spots and we`ll probably spend more time there than anywhere else.

morainelake.jpg


So my question is how do I camp safely and reduce the risk of a big hairy monster walking into our camp in the middle of the night and biting my face off. I know about suspending food up a tree far away from camp, and prepping and cooking food away too, but how can you be sure that you`ve not pitched up half a mile away from a couple of cubs and a very protective mother.
I`m curious myself but the wife needs concrete reassurance before she`ll even think about it.
 

Shewie

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Dec 15, 2005
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Cheers Bill there`s some good reading there.

I`ve got some bear bells from a couple of years ago which I`ll be taking, it`s just the camping out bit the wife`s not keen on. We could use designated camps I suppose but it`s shame to go all that way and not hit the backcountry.
 

jojo

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 16, 2006
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England's most easterly point
I remember watching a program some while ago about a couple who were filmakers and had taken their kids with them to film bears, can't quite remember where, but it was in Canada. They were camping and had installed a electric fence around their camp. I don't know how effective it would be but thought it maybe worth looking into it.
 

wicca

Native
Oct 19, 2008
1,065
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South Coast
:thinkerg: Sleep in 'yer birthday suit Rich, everyone knows the average bear can barely bare bare bodies. Sorry mate, one of our Canadian/American friends will be along in a minute with an intelligent answer..:D :D :D
 

Humpback

On a new journey
Dec 10, 2006
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1/4 mile from Bramley End.
I'm properly envious of your trip and can offer nothing useful regarding your question. But that's not stopped me before.

You need to get some of that Bear Gryease so any bears coming to you site will be fluffy.:rolleyes:

Sorry I couldn't resist. I'll get my coat

PS love the photos
 

dogwood

Settler
Oct 16, 2008
501
0
San Francisco
Shewie,

I live in Northern California and do a fair amount of long distance backpacking here. Also I lived in Alaska and did the same. So I have a LOT of experience with both black and brown bears in North America -- including lots of experience with bears in some of the hot spots for rude bear behavior.

First off: a bear siting is thrilling and I *hope* you see several. (Years ago I did about a 60 mille backpack near Banff and saw about a dozen bears, but that was in the 1980s, so I don't know what it's like now.)

The reason I preface my remarks with saying I hope you see a bear is because that's the mindset that's best to have: eager anticipation is better than fear.

Sometimes you run into people in bear country here with chains of bells and multiple cans of bear spray and god knows what else because they're so frightened of seeing a bear. They're overwrought about it.

Don't be. You are less likely to be hurt by a bear even in a place like Yosemite (the poster child for bad bear behavior) than you are being hit by a lightening bolt in a thunderstorm. Acquaint the missus with the statistics and it will make her feel better.

That said, here are a couple of things to be aware of: always cook sixty or 100 meters from your camp. Do not have snacks inside your tent (I break this one regularly even in places this with black bears and only had two visits, both fled when yelled at.) NEVER deliberately feed the bears (I realize you know this but it must be said).

Hanging food is almost generally a bad idea. Even if you do it right -- hang a long line in between trees and then hang the food in between -- the odds are you're going to lose food to either a creative black bear or a racoon (brilliant animals) or even squirrels.

The better approach and the one most people use (it's a law now in some places in the West) is to put your food in a bear proof canister. These are large lexan plastic canisters that the bears can't get a purchase on. They actually test them with bears that are so bad they've been placed in zoos to get them out of nature.

They form a really reliable (and helpfully odor suppressing) container for food. Keeps out racoons and other varmits as well.) The can be expensive: US $75, but most places with bears have a spot where you can rent them for a few dollars. Canisters are better for the bears (they realize they can't get food from people) and for you.

Now, on the issue of bear encounters: brown bears (Grizzlies) are one of the great forces in nature and I *pray* you get to see a few. There used to be loads of brown bears around Banff, but I don't know about now.

Admire them, do not fear them. Grizzlies almost never attack people (when they do, it's generally fatal) however they will bluff charge from time to time if they feel threatened.

In my experiences -- maybe 50 close encounters with Grizzlies and a few hundred long distance viewings -- I've never been bluff charged. (I did have a Grizzly attack my volkswagen in Alaska, but that's another story -- it felt threatened because I almost hit it at night on a dirt road -- wild experience...)

If you get a bluff charge, hold your ground -- do NOT run; running triggers a predatory response -- but don't be aggressive in turn. Slowly, sedately move off. A friend in Alaska had a Grizzly bluff charge him three times and he said staying calm under those circumstances changed his life forever because he said he knows he can control his fear.

If Grizzly does attack, it's almost always because it feels threatened and if you cover up (especially the back of your neck) and lay still it will bite you and bat you a bit and go away. If an attack lasts more than a few minutes -- or if it starts to drag you more than a few feet (they hide their food, if they drag you it's BAD) -- you'll know this is predation behavior and it's time to fight for all you're worth.

Grizzlies almost never predate on humans, however. Statistically it is super rare.

Also, the odds of you running across a Grizzly by accident on the trail are miniscule. They stay away from people as much as possible. They're shy and beautiful. I love them. There are few things in the world cooler than a grizzly.

Black bears (which can be brown in color, FYI) are much smaller than brown bears and can be curious pests. They're VERY smart and VERY curious. Just as you never threaten a brown bear, if a black bear comes close you take an aggressive stance with them. Make noise, throw rocks. etc.

Ninety nine times out of 100 they're flee immediately.

Usually, particularly in areas where they've got human food, black bears want your food. If you have none they can steal, they move on.

However, black bears are known to predate on humans from time to time -- usually sick ones and even then it's very rare. Black bear predatory behavior is pretty easy to spot. If they follow you at a distance for any length of time, they're evaluating the situation. It's time to be super aggressive with them.

I've had this happen to me on about half a dozen occasions -- always young bears in the far wilds of Alaska, trying to figure out what I was -- and it's generally over fast and makes for a great night's tale around campfires.

If the bear is old and exhibits this behavior, you might have a real problem on your hands. It almost never happens, but.... With black bears you NEVER stop fighting. If cubs are not involved, a predatory black bear isn't attacking you because you're a threat it's attacking you for dinner.

(By the way, in my experience the mom and cubs thing with black bears is pretty funny -- the moms run like hell and leave the cubs behind to catch up. The mom and cubs stuff with Grizzlies is different though -- but mother grizzlies make a point of keeping their cubs far from where you will be...)

Also, if the any bear tries to come into your shelter at night and you've got no food, it's an alarm bell and you should be aggressive.

Oh, and scat -- black bear scat looks surprisingly like very dark human scat (check it with a stick, if you notice food wrappers in it, you'll know you've got a pest bear nearby even if you're in the far bush -- they relocate bad bears far away...) Brown bear scat tends to be much larger and often fairly loose.

Most of the time, the worse bear offenders are not where you are: if you're 10 miles from the nearest garbage can, the pest bears aren't there... they're in town working on the garbage...

One weird thing is happening in the West right now -- because of encroachment and climate change, some top tier predator behavior is changing. Increasingly mountain lions -- a super rare site in days past -- are showing up closer to towns and places where people are. So some behavior is changing, however, after lots of time in bear country, I assure you their behavior is pretty predictable.

But still my best advice: pray to see a bear. Get yourself a canister and rest easy, nothing bad will happen. They're wonderful animals and, other than the pests, they have very little interest in you.
 

dogwood

Settler
Oct 16, 2008
501
0
San Francisco
Cheers Bill there`s some good reading there.

I`ve got some bear bells from a couple of years ago which I`ll be taking, it`s just the camping out bit the wife`s not keen on. We could use designated camps I suppose but it`s shame to go all that way and not hit the backcountry.

Shewie, skip the bear bells. No use. Empty comfort. You make more than enough noise on your own, trust me.

Also, established camps are *exactly* where the bears with bad behavior go: they know people mean food at established camps.

Going off on your own is better by far.
 
The book referenced by HillBill is a good short introduction.

If you want a THOROUGH discussion, I recommend the books by James Gary Shelton, beginning with his BEAR ENCOUNTER SURVIVAL GUIDE. (Available from Amazon, at least in North America.) Shelton lives in Bella Coola B.C., and is the foremost expert on bear encounters in British Columbia.

Preventing bear encounters and attacks is a complicated subject, especially in a large Canadian park like Banff or Jasper, where both grizzlies and black bears are common, and people commonly cook food.

These two kinds of bears behave somewhat differently toward humans, but generalizations aren't sufficient to keep you safe because bears are intelligent enough to differ as individuals. However, the generalizations are these: Black bears are more easily dissuaded in a direct confrontation, but sometimes ambush and prey on humans. Grizzlies are huge, and are difficult to dissuade in a direct confrontation. With a grizzly, the best thing to do is to avert your glance, turn sideways, and back away slowly, to show that you intend no threat. However, grizzlies have been known to attack sleeping campers in their tents.

When you camp at an established campsite, which you would be required to do in Banff or Jasper, it won't be enough to keep a clean camp and to keep food at least 100 yards from your sleeping area. The bears will behave in ways encouraged or incited by previous campers, and you won't have any idea whether those previous campers kept food out or acted like prey. Also, Canadian bears have been too protected for too long, and have largely lost their fear of humans.

If you camp out there, by all means buy at least two 26-oz. cannisters of Canadian bear repellent spray -- one for you and one for your wife -- and learn how to use it.

Tip: Don't believe the fools who think you spray this stuff on yourself to keep the bears away!!!! That will make you smell like a barbeque to the bears, and if anything, will make you more interesting to them. (It would probably also disable you!) If attacked, you spray the entire 26 oz. into the bear's face at close range, preferably into its nose and mouth.

If you encounter a bear, do not turn and run, because that will make you look like prey, and you cannot outrun a bear. Do not expect to climb trees: by the time a grizzly is aware of you and is interested in you, it is too late to climb a tree. (Grizzlies have been clocked at over 40 mph -- 64 kph).

I'm not trying to dissuade you from camping there; my wife and I have done it several times. What I AM trying to do is to encourage you to study bears before you go.

It is indeed interesting, exciting, and fun to see bears (and other predators) in the wild. The trick is to learn to see them at a distance, and not stumble on them at close range, in a way that surprises both you and the bear. It's very much like being aware of all the people around you in a city. Most of those people bear you no ill will, but a few are predators. Can you spot the predators and keep your distance?
 

tommy the cat

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 6, 2007
2,138
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SHROPSHIRE UK
Great reply that fella very informative.
Dead jealous Banff Lake louise beautiful area mind there was 32 feet of snow when I was there. Good luck. D
 

Draven

Native
Jul 8, 2006
1,530
6
34
Scotland
Great posts here :D Canada is one of the places I'd most like to visit for some 'wild camping' and bears are a big concern I've had.

Atb
Pete
 

johnnytheboy

Native
Aug 21, 2007
1,884
14
45
Falkirk
jokesblogspot.blogspot.com
I looked for information before i left for Canada this year and it was totally conflicting, so i thought i'll just wait and see whats happens when we see one, seems abit daft but we were pushed for time sorting the trip out. We seen loads of the wee black ones they seemed to just sit and stare at us or just wander off not realy botheredthat we were there.

Probably no help whatsoever but thats what happened, nothing exciting, they were however one of the most interesting things we seen wildlife wise
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
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Wow great replies guys

I`m just gonna make a cuppa and sit down and read through them properly.

We`ve seen a couple of black bears in Banff before and they were absolutely stunning, shimmering black coat in the sun as they stood and stared at us. I`d love to see some more though next time.

Thanks for the info chaps, no doubt I`ll have some more questions for you when I`ve digested it all.
 

Gill

Full Member
Jun 29, 2004
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i presume you would like to see some more from a distance Shewie ! like quite a big distance. i,ve not been here yet,but intend to go sometime, and have thought about this problem a lot. i don,t know if there is a concrete answer, i think it will always be a calculated risk .i think pepper sprays and cattle prods would help, just in case ! i would always make sure the wifes pockets and sleeping bag were full of all the munchies though ,just to keep them away from racoons :D :D :D
 

dogwood

Settler
Oct 16, 2008
501
0
San Francisco
SInce IdahoBackwoods posted as well, I'm inspired to recommend Idaho to everyone in Britain.

In my mind, Idaho is one of the undiscovered gems in the US, in terms of sheer beauty, it's up there with Montana and Wyoming, although nothing touches Alaska on that score.

However, the difference is that even in the US, most people don't explore Idaho and there is more wild adventure there than you can believe.

Sometimes I think there's almost a secret club of US outdoorsmen who know about Idaho. It's just not on lots of people's mental maps -- but oh god the country there is fabulous...

Plus in lots of spots it's great place for wildlife watching. (If I remember correctly, it's done a lot of wolf re-population -- that's something I have yet to see, wild wolves in the lower 48... Alaska and the Yukon territory, yes, lower 48, no....)

Anyhow, if you love the wilds, check out Idaho, you won't be sorry.
 
Is this actually the case now?

I the last time I was in Banff was years ago and there were not any prohibitions on back country camping.

Has this changed?

My understanding 12 years ago was that we were expected to camp in designated spots. In the back country, we were supposed to get a permit, which would state which spots we would camp in. Of course, if you just take off into the woods, nobody would be the wiser unless they stumbled upon you.

The "designated campsite" was supposedly a factor in the famous mauling of a German guy who was canoeing around Bowron Lakes -- east of Quesnel -- with his fiancee in the early 90s. They were camping in a designated spot when a grizzly attacked them in their tent in the middle of the night. The grizzly attacked the guy's side of the tent and the woman managed to get out, though injured. She managed to get some kind of weapon -- I can't remember what it was -- and she drove the bear off just enough that she got her fiancee in the canoe and got him out of there. Investigation showed later that these two had kept an immaculate camp, with no food exposed at all. Most bear experts feel that this attack may have involved a bear who was habituated to finding people and food at that spot.

This is the reason why I refuse when possible to camp in a designated campsite in bear country.

I believe I'm right about this, but if I'm wrong, perhaps somebody from Canada can correct me.
 
The "designated campsite" was supposedly a factor in the famous mauling of a German guy who was canoeing around Bowron Lakes -- east of Quesnel -- with his fiancee in the early 90s. They were camping in a designated spot when a grizzly attacked them in their tent in the middle of the night.

Well, I've now looked up the details of that attack, and I see I misremembered some of them. The place where I'm finding the information is on pages 94-98 of the book I recommended by James Gary Shelton, BEAR ENCOUNTER SURVIVAL GUIDE.

The attack occurred June 10, 1994, at Isaac Lake, in Bowron Lakes Park, east of Quesnel, BC. The young man was 26, a German doctor doing an internship in Seattle. His fiancee was on vacation from Germany. They were camped at the Lynx Creek Campsite in a tent, and were attacked at 0700 -- not in the middle of the night -- by a black bear, not a grizzly.

The bear tore open the tent. The woman was able to get under her sleeping pad, but the man rolled on top to protect her. The bear began to tear the man apart, and during the melee, the woman was able to enlarge a tear in the tent and escape. She ran to an old cabin nearby, in which they had stored their gear, and grabbed an axe that was in the cabin. Returning to the tent area, she found the bear dragging her fiancee off into the bush. She struck the bear on the back of the neck with the axe, and it dropped the man and ran off. With great difficulty, the man crawled to the cabin with the woman helping him.

Inside the cabin, she dressed his wounds, gave him water, and lit a fire. She decided that she had to go for help, but when she stepped outside, the bear had returned. She hit the bear with a chunk of wood and ran for the canoe. The man was able to latch the door of the cabin. While the woman was paddling down the lake toward a ranger station several hours away, the bear returned and tried repeatedly to get into the cabin. Between fainting spells, the man was occasionally able to hit the walls of the cabin with the axe, making enough noise to keep the bear from breaking in.

The woman happened upon rangers in a motorboat, and they summoned a helicopter. All the help arrived at the cabin at 10:45 -- nearly four hours after the initial attack.

The man was initially in critical condition and required 300 stitches, but did recover, more or less.

The investigation showed that the two campers had kept an extremely clean, food-free camp. The attack was clearly a predatory attack in which the bear intended to eat a human.

Shelton discusses some of the lessons from this incident, and again I recommend reading what he has to say. Black bears are more likely than grizzlies to prey on humans, but both kinds of bears sometimes regard humans as food. It depends on the physical and mental health of the bear and the supply of its "normal" food.
 

dogwood

Settler
Oct 16, 2008
501
0
San Francisco
Thanks for the background on the changes in Banff... And on this:

This is the reason why I refuse when possible to camp in a designated campsite in bear country.

I agree with you 1,000%

I don't know anyone who has experience with bear country who wants anything to do with established campgrounds. (And there are lots of other reasons to stay away from established camp grounds...)

If you look at the history of attacks you'll find that it happens most often near established camp grounds or were related to a hunting/fishing activity.

As usual, Wikipedia is an interesting resource on this -- it has a list of fatal bear attacks (type of bear, circumstances, etc) by decade in North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_decade

A couple of things worth noting about this list:

a) it shows how rare it really is -- just in Yosemite, Yellowstone and Glacier National Parks alone you're looking at something on the order of three million people annually in these bear heavy parks. Then you have all the people in Canada and Alaska living in bear country and yet, even in the peak decades of 1990s and 2000s you're looking something like 20 fatalities a decade. Playing golf has 10 times more fatalities per decade in the US (for real)....

b) you will note that attacks are more frequent now than 40 years ago -- it's partly because of better reporting, but mainly it's proximity. Also, a park ranger friend of mine said that the trail running fad that arrived in the 1990s really increased total attacks because bears perceive the runner as fleeing prey. Still, again, golf is more statistically more dangerous (particularly the way I play...) so just don't go pitching camp on a golf course it's more dangerous that camping in bear country...
 

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