Bushcraft Vrs Paganism?

[Faeden]

Hi all I am new here

I hope this is allowed up on there forums, as I am writing this thread because I am interested in the views of people who practice Bushcraft on this following subject. This is not a post about religion, or to start one about it, just me wanting help on the question of what do Bushcrafters here think about this?

I am no expert on Bushcraft, but as a Pagan I have an interest in it, I have heard some people interested in Bushcraft are reluctant to accept that Bushcraft has a connection to ancient Paganism, and neo paganism, I can see why many people involved with Bushcraft might refuse to acknowledge it, because of the bad press movies and the media gives Paganism, and because some might be of a religious faith that doesn’t look to kindly on Paganism, but the truth is, although the two are different things, they both have strong connections and similarities. Many people who are activists for the environment and to protect wildlife are Pagans including Greenpeace, because Paganism is an umbrella term for those who find spirituality through the beauty of nature, and therefore strive to protect it from the ever increasing greed of humanity and capitalism.

Some of the similarities as I see it are as follows…..

People who practice Bushcraft know all about the years seasons, respect and observe them. The pagan wheel of the year is a way to worship nature and the divine spirit that works through nature and its seasons so that symbolically it can be used for each time of year for the 8 Pagan festivals of every year. Pagans observe the wheel of the year as the seasons turn as eternally turning over and over again, so to symbolize birth, life, death, and rebirth.

Pagans use Herb craft as a means of healing, and take what they need and use the natural environment around them to aid them selves and others.

Pagans have a great understanding of natural foods that grow in the wild, in order to survive (although modern pagans or Bushcrafters will not need them to survive today, but do it for enjoyment and in a pagans case spirituality too)

Both Pagans and Bushcrafters are aware of the connection with themselves and the natural environment and are aware of nature being alive and that they are both in harmony with it.

Both Pagans and Bushcrafters know the importance of nature, and the importance of protecting nature as it is essential for the future of our planet.

Both pagans and Bushcrafters use the Moon and the Sun as a guide and tool for there work.

And the biggest similarity of all of how I see it, is both Bushcrafters and Pagans love and respect nature, enjoy it and only take what they need and give thanks.

Many of the things in Bushcraft come from the ancient peoples that where Pagan, so its inevitable that Bushcraft will have connections with Paganism and witchcraft, although one is spiritual, and for some is not. Bushcraft is apart of Paganism (to a Pagan), although paganism will have nothing to do with most Bushcrafters, as they do not see the spiritual side of it, which is good, but both enjoy nature in a respectful and a joyful way, which cant be a bad thing for either side.

Also the word "Pagan" in Latin means "Country dweller"

All the best
Faeden

 

[Graywolf]

Faeden,Hello and welcome.
I personally agree with what you say,that I have a spiritual connection with the wilderness.I feel at peace surrounded by nature always have.Also the practical side of paganism/witchcraft kept many ancient skills alive so how can their not be a connection.
Clayton

 

[Faeden]

Hi Graywolf

Yes I know how that is, if I am upset or down in the dumps there is no better remedy than a walk into the countryside, I can sit there and take in the surroundings, and all the worlds problems seem to vanish. Its a shame more people don’t realise this, I do not suffer from depression, but I know many people that do and they have beaten there depression by realising the therapeutic effect of nature, and the peace of the country that can have such a positive effect on ones psyche. Many cant be bothered to go stomping though the wilderness, so miss out on the benefits of it, which is a shame, most people I know are not Pagan, and think I am cookoo when I tell them to go and have a walk and sit down in nature when they are down, but only see what I mean when they finally do it Nature has so much to offer humanity, both physically and otherwise, yet we treat it as a dust bun and rape it for out own comftable lifestyles forgetting about the future

Take care
Faeden

 

[JoshG]

I used to be a pagan.

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

I think a definition of your paganism is in order. By content I assume you practise a varient of pre christian practises popularised by Aliester Crowley's student Gardner. Collectively this recreated smorgasborg of culture borrowing is called Wicca, a Saxon word applied to a veneer of pan celtic folklore. Worldwide you can find everything from lesbian latinos forming aztec barios de los Quetzacoatl in Bakersfield California to russian shamans selling 8 branched swastikas by Lenin's Tomb. Sadly, in all honesty most practitioners are either revolting against a specific religosity ( the C word) or an empty upbringing of secular humanism. It's sad that revolt is against something little understood or even correctly practised. J.R.R. Tolkien and G.K. Chesterton were devout Catholics. C.S. Lewis moved from atheism to Anglicanism. I dare say Tolkien's deep love of trees found spiritual validation as profound as any neo Druid dancing around pre celtic Stonehenge. These three Englishmen probably wrote more deeply magical works seperately than all the inarfully cobbled tomes of neo witchcraft combined. It is a conciet to assume that mere practise of somethinig DIFFERENT makes it BETTER. It's like born again druids in California speaking (well trying to speak ) a language surviving mostly in the gaeltact of western Ireland and Portlaiose prison. There is nothing inherently superior asking where the lou is in butchered gaelic over contemporary cockney english, and the birds still don't land on their shoulders. I don't know what Saint Francis' trick was with birds and animals, only that I don't have it. The greatest danger is to assume moral superiority by mumbling 'Blessed Be' over 'Go with God.' Your merely assuming the trappings of the Grand Inquisitor on a mean scale. 'Pagans' can achieve a reunification with the wild. Just remember those roses growiing in Findhorn sand were developed by Christian Monks.

 

[Faeden]

Hi ChrisKavanaugh

I found your post difficult to understand, but ill try and answer some of the things I think I understood.

I think a definition of your paganism is in order. By content I assume you practise a varient of pre christian practises popularised by Aliester Crowley's student Gardner.

I study mostly Celtic paganism, and native American spirituality, I am not a fan of Crowley, Thelema is one of the pagan ways I stay away from. Gardner was Not a student of Crowley, however was in communication with him, but the two did not get alone, to be harsh Crowley was a pretty nasty man, and I think the way his life turned out is enough to prove that and he’s not someone I wish to learn from. Also Crowley was a genius, its just a shame he did not use it for more positive means. Crowley was not really interested in the spiritual side of nature, but more the demons of the Goetia and the lesser key of Solomon. Demons are not something I have a interest in, and I don’t believe in demons as in evil monsters, I believe them to be the evil side of humanity.

Worldwide you can find everything from lesbian latinos forming aztec barios de los Quetzacoatl in Bakersfield California to russian shamans selling 8 branched swastikas by Lenin's Tomb. Sadly, in all honesty most practitioners are either revolting against a specific religosity ( the C word) or an empty upbringing of secular humanism. It's sad that revolt is against something little understood or even correctly practised.

Swastikas are actually a Hindu sign of good luck and power, the Nazis just high jacked it for there own sinister means.

There are many types of paganism from all over the world, I do not know much about lesbians in paganism, except for the Dianic roman pagan path, where the goddess Diana (the huntress) was often given most power, which is why many feminists follow Dianic paganism.

Do you mean that most pagans are revolting? LOL I have to say I know hundreds of pagans, and do not see them as revolting, most of them are some of the most respectful people I know, although there are a small few in paganism that give it a bad name, but you find that in every religion, its the few bad apples that spoil it for the rest. All the pagans I know are very tolerant of others beliefs, even though they have to suffer hate from other faiths, they have learnt to laugh it off and rise above it.

Yes J.R.R. Tolkien was a Catholic, and a very strict one at that, but he did have a fascination with Pagan mythology, especially the druid/Celtic ones, which you can openly see in the Lord of the rings trilogy.

It's like born again druids in California speaking (well trying to speak ) a language surviving mostly in the gaeltact of western Ireland and Portlaiose prison.

Being I am not from the US, I cant speak for them, but we get pagan here that are harmless, but a little frustrating for some other pagans, as they are only in it for the "cool" factor of paganism, but at the end of the day I don’t mind, as they are not harming anyone, and the main principle of most pagans paths is if you harm no one, then do what you will Most wannabes soon get board and move onto something else.

Paganism to me is anyone that that practices the earth based faiths, that looks for god through nature. Some would say that Buddhism and Hinduism is paganism, but i would not agree with that, but some believe anyone that is not Christian, Catholic, Jewish, or Muslim is a Pagan because Pagan is sometimes used as a term to insult anyone that is not of the abrahamic faiths as a "godless" person.

All the best
Faeden

 

[torjusg]

I believe that everyone living in the nature will eventually grow superstitious. On can not fully understand the things that controls everything you see. Of some reason sometimes, completly unexplainable things happen.

One example that I have experienced myself:
I was camping in the mountains in a lavvo in the winter. It was bitterly cold. About 20 degrees below zero. Some time during the night I suddenly woke up, hearing something walking in the snow outside. I assumed that it was a moose and slept on. But the next day when I inspected the surroundings to see if I could see the tracks, the only tracks I could see was my own. Quite a scary experience.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Faeden, I think you need to expand your religous vocabulary beyond this pan pagan romance of 'pre monotheistic' noble savages of Rousseau in ecologic harmony and balance with Earth Mother. The earliest known artifact of religosity are the femurs of short faced cave bears symbolically locked into their skull and jaws in 'cave altars' The fate of bears around people was just recently discussed in another thread. I must ask, what happened to all those short faced bears? The next artifacts are the 'fertility goddesses' such as the Venus of Willendorf, which are in all probability minor fetish figurines representing the female role in a stable household, said figures being found most often in early central and eastern european homesites. But now it allready gets interesting. Professor Maria Getrudis took these figures and created an entire mother goddess based european culture of touchy feely pacifists who embraced a value sytem not unlike her ethnocentric U.C. Santa Cruz feminist worldview. It was big bad MEN worshipping war and hunting gods like Cernunnus that invaded bringing the social progenitors of spousal abuse, warfare and Ronald Reagan republicanism. Meanwhile in tropical rainforest Australia those masters of the didgereedo were burning forest to flush game with all the live for today responsibility of SUV drivers burning oil, and Australia is a much different place today. I could go on in sad ad nauseum of how virtually every culture has modified the earth for selfish goals. Be you an animist, animalist, theist,deist or think one can walk into a Highland New Guinea longhouse, shout ' blessed be, brothers and sistas' I is a pagan too without getting eaten the result is sadly the same. Linking bushcraft to paganism is no different than linking judaism with moneylending, ghost dancers to islamic suicide bombers or Garuda to a chupacabra.

 

[leon-1]

Hi all I am new here

I hope this is allowed up on there forums, as I am writing this thread because I am interested in the views of people who practice Bushcraft on this following subject. This is not a post about religion, or to start one about it, just me wanting help on the question of what do Bushcrafters here think about this?

What I think is that Paganism is a religion and by comparing the beliefs of people that carry out bushcraft to paganism will start a religious debate AS IT ALREADY HAS STARTED TO DO.

We can all talk about the parallels between our beliefs, however please don't bring specifics in to it as pretty much all belief systems could draw a parallel betwen themslelves and bushcrat in one way shape or form. I am going to lock this thread and have a chat with the others as I beleive it to be a little too close to the mark at the moment. It may open later, but we will see.