Bowdrill help please?

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Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Hi - I've been experimenting with a bowdrill for the first time and managed to produce lots of smoke and lots of black dust but unfortunately no ember.

I tried old bone dry cherry on itself (from the same piece of wood) with a spindle of about 25-30mm diameter. I then tried pine (or possibly spruce?) on something similar to itself - just building timber offcuts. The pine spindle was smaller, about 20mm diameter. In both cases the drill started to wander into the notch and towards the edge of the board - perhaps I made the notches either too wide or too far into the depression? In both cases I managed to produce a lot of dust and lots of smoke but when i blew on the dust there was no glow - it just blew away. It didn't want to bunch together in any way.

I want to demonstrate this technique to our scouts on Tuesday and I'd really like to get a flame instead of just lots of smoke. So... some questions:

I've seen willow, hazel, sycamore etc mentionned - can you use them green? split from the centre of a green log? or do they have to be dead and dry? if green can they be used immediately or dried a little first?

Is anyone in the North East Wales / Cheshire area willing to meet up for a quick tutorial - beer /chocolate etc can be freely supplied!

What would be the choice of woods and exact age / condition / size of the pieces for a best chance first go at it?

Thanks in advance guys:You_Rock_

Dom.
 

mazeman

Forager
Jun 7, 2007
221
0
Porthmadog, Gwynedd
There'll doubtless be plenty of tips with regard to your bowdrill technique... but may I humbly suggest that you wait a little, perhaps until you've grasped a few of the seemingly infinite variables, before you 'demonstrate' the technique.
I've been there with my Cubs and a fire piston!
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
You can use sycamore, cut it and shape it, then store it on the window ledge where there's lots of sunlight. it should dry out quite a bit within a few days. if you want, chuck it on the radiator and bang the heating on. Doesn't matter if it checks a bit, so long as moisture is driven off, it should work. You could wander round and look for dead standing timber though. Poke around this site, there are loads of threads on bow drill use, and look for the egyptian bow drill which uses a slightly different bow and string attatchment.

I'd certainly get a set made that will give you an ember each time before you take it in and show your skills off. You don't want egg on your face!
 

Chance

Nomad
May 10, 2006
486
4
57
Aberdeenshire
Alder, or ivy, if you can find them. Seasoned and dry.
After you've first seen smoke, keep going more vigorously (for your first attempt, pretty much until you exhaust yourself, just to be sure).
If the coal (importantly, not just a pile of dust, more like the cherry off the end of a cigarette) is still smoking, you've done it. Just make sure that you remembered to prepare a tinder bundle. Oh, and don't drip sweat onto the coal.
If you want to understand the process, some people suggest starting off with an electric drill. This allows you to ensure that you've got the right wood(s), pressure and time before you give yourself blisters.
Many people disagree, but I believe that the bearing block is the most important element (after technique). The harder and slippier it is, the more of your energy is going into creating fire in the right place (i.e. not right under your hand).
 

Seoras

Mod
Mod
Oct 7, 2004
1,926
117
57
Bramley, Hampshire
Hi Dom

I would agree with Mazeman to hold back demonstrating this until you can regularly produce a coal.

A little time searching this forum will give you all the answers you want but time in the dirt perfecting the technique is what is required.

If you can make it to the Bushmoot in August I am running a few Bowdrill workshops.

One will be family orientated using the Group Bowdrill method (great for Scouts/Cubs/families etc) and I will also be showing what I call the Assisted method (older kids prefer this) and as usual the traditional Beast yourself on your own method.

As Spamel said try out the Egyptian method, it is a bit fiddly to begin with but great when you have got the knack.

I use all these techniques teaching to adults and kids.

Cheers and good luck.

George
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Dom,
Tuesday is a little ambitious, but not impossible if you can get a little one-on-one coaching. Hazel on ivy should work well but if you don't have the time to learn the technique then the advice on holding off until some future time is good - you won't be able to bluff it!
George (Seoras) is probably the most prolific bowdrill teacher on the forum and time spent in his company at the Moot will be of great benefit.

ATB

Ogri the trog
 

falcon

Full Member
Aug 27, 2004
1,211
33
Shropshire
If you're under pressure to do something soon, how about flint & steel with charcloth..? It's quick to do and, with a bag of dried grass, you could get the Scouts hands on trying to blow their own embers to flame.......
 

andy_e

Native
Aug 22, 2007
1,742
0
Scotland
Technique is everything, the choice of woods secondary, so I too would recommend you get a lot more practice in and some in-person advice/tuition from more seasoned hands.

If you really want to use the bow-drill you could use it as an object lesson on how important fire-lighting in the wild can be and how much effort it can take, also the consequences of failure. That way if you are successful you take it one way and if you're not you can take it the other way.

Sounds like you're not far from a coal, just build up the speed of bowing a bit more and add a little more downward pressure and you should get it.
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Cheers for all the advice guys...

I did some foraging on the way home and got some dead standing hazel, dead standing willow, and some live ivy (which is currently split and drying out in the oven).

I'm going to have another crack at it after dinner - i'll post my results up later on

wish me luck! :rolleyes:

Dom.
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Tried hazel on hazel and after a couple of aborted attempts with string snapping / slipping etc. i got it to work. I used cotton wool and dry grass for the tinder bundle. Sprinted off to get the camera and took this shot:

100_0623.jpg


The flames went out before I got to take the picture, but I DID IT !!!!!

Well Chuffed!

Dom.
 

andy_e

Native
Aug 22, 2007
1,742
0
Scotland
Fantastic, well done mate. Now you have cracked the technique, you just have to keep practicing and trying different wood combinations too. :beerchug:
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Thanks for the support guys

I'm wondering when my missus is going to get bored of me repeatedly saying to her chirpily

" I MADE FIRE !!! he he he !! "

It's definately in double figures now :lmao:

Dom.
 

Silverback

Full Member
Sep 29, 2006
978
15
England
Don't neglect the converting into flame part of the technique - I have seen many people achieve an ember only to lose it when it comes to transferring to the tinder bundle and 'blowing up' to flame. A crumbled cramp ball in your tinder can help as an extender no end (there will always be some little bright spark that will ask "What if you don't have any cotton wool?") ;) . Charcloth and firesteel are always a big hit with the cubs and scouts as well :)
 

rich59

Maker
Aug 28, 2005
2,217
25
65
London
I can see you are a determined chap Dom. I would have said that a key next stage in learning bow drill is show other people because it is quite a new challenge to do it while being watched. But I guess you are out there doing it with your scouts this evening already.

Then, way down the line another stage would be teach someone else to do it.
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Did the bowdrill, along with a few other techniques, with the scouts tonight. Got 2 embers in a row but couldn't quite manage the blowing into flame :( Got glowing tinder bundle and lots of smoke but couldn't quite manage flame - ah well - the lads were still suitably excited by it, and we cooked sausages over a small fire started by flint / steel / birch bark.

All in all a pretty good evening :rolleyes:

Cheers!
 

Seoras

Mod
Mod
Oct 7, 2004
1,926
117
57
Bramley, Hampshire
I am glad you had success getting the embers Dom. Did you double up on the Bow with any of the cubs?

Keep at it and as Silverback said work on the flame part as I know how frustrating it is to watch that hard won ember going out.

A lot of the time people give up when the tinder bundle is glowing cherry red but without flame as it is too hot to hold. Dump the bundle on the ground and lie down beside it and blow into it. Nine times out of ten it will ignite.

I bet the look you saw on the cubs faces when they saw the glowing ember was enough encouragement for you to keep perfecting your technique.

Cheers and good luck for the next time.

George
 

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