Ban on sale of coal and wet wood.

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Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Apr 15, 2005
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I'm not against biofuels, just against the people who are kicking the backside out of the grant schemes.

Theres still a lot of willow planted round here bu5 I'm not sure how its working out.
I have heard that Philip Day who owns Edinburgh Wollen Mill is buying up a lot of farms in Cumbria and growing biofuels on them, again I don't know enough about that one to really comment about its viability and so on.
 

Tengu

Full Member
Jan 10, 2006
11,581
840
48
Wiltshire
A useful thread.

Dad is onto me about my woodburner, -He says they are being phased out. I found 1300 on Ebay and he told me they were second hand ones being sold on quick before the ban.

(Ok).

He also told me that the stuff I read about climate change written by my Archaeologist friends and geologist friends is nonsense. Apparently it didn't change before the industrial revolution.

("Scientists say"...Incidentally I am a scientist too).

Where does he get these ideas? He's not a conspiracy nut. Too imaginative for him. I'm glad I am young and ignorant.

Ill keep my burner, thank you.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,893
2,772
S. Lanarkshire
Unless your burner has a very efficient flue, and is cleaned regularly, and you only use 'clean' fuel, then it contributes to the air pollution of the area you live. Particulate matter from them stinks, and is very, very noticeable to your neighbours......we have a neighbour who insists that burning the treated cut off ends of decking timbers is fine. Funny how the air around us stinks of burning TCP when he lights up.
Environmental Health was not amused.

To be honest, I think it's time and place for stoves and open domestic fires nowadays.
I mind how dirty the local towns and cities were when we all burned fires.

At least mains power comes from stations where they are (or should) be held accountable for the pollution they produce.
 

Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
5,374
4,733
Mid Wales
We had a new log burner fitted just over a year ago. The previous one was over 25 years old. I can't remember the exact figures but the new stove is something like 80% more efficient than the old one. The legislation doesn't ban log burners, it just defines an efficiency rating they have to burn to and even then it only applies to new ones.
 
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Broch

Full Member
Jan 18, 2009
5,374
4,733
Mid Wales
Which I think makes good sense.

How do I make mine more efficient given it was made in 1940?

I'm sorry to say I suspect you can't. The new designs are fitted with baffles that control the gas flow and force it back around the stove for a second burn. The air intake is more refined now as well to ensure there's oxygen available to ensure complete burn.

However, it might be worth a search to see if there are ways to do such a thing.
 

henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
434
285
Derby
If you burn house Coal in our Marina( in the countryside)they’ll warn you not to do it.. or your off!
Theres also people who burn MDF & wet wood yet nothing is said(yet).
The burning of house coal & wet wood must stop.
also we can’t burn paper Either?
ive also noticed that more & more smokeless fuels has more water in it..more water +less coke + more profit?
There also seems to be more green clinker & ash which suggests more cement is being added. Burning cement + acid rain & other environmental issues?( cement is a binder & burns hotter)
ive asked the coal merchant about it & he admitted something has changed in the ingredients . Could it be cheap imported stuff( brown coal or sweepings up off the floor compressed to form a coal, who knows?
I end with this poem about woods to burn.
image.jpg
 
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henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
434
285
Derby
Which I think makes good sense.

How do I make mine more efficient given it was made in 1940?
Hmm. My parents have an old 40/50s stove.. they have put thicker fire bricks in it, a damper 400mm at the bottom of the chimney & double insulated the chimney out side with a decent smoke/wind cowl.
Also have an eco fan on top of the stove.
It seems to last about the same as my modern stove.
There is a newish thing called a coal basket that you stack the coals in the stove, they are meant to work?Looks like a chip basket with the bottom cut out.
 
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henchy3rd

Full Member
Apr 16, 2012
434
285
Derby
Where I live we have no gas. So we are reliant on wood coal electric or oil for heating. I do have a multi fuel stove that burns smokeless coal or wood. I'd be lost without it as my main heating is electric If we have power cuts I'd have no heating cooking or hot water. Luckily I'm prepared for this so it doesn't affect my ability to cope with no electric.
This is causing a lot of worry round here as a lot of people rely on wood or coal to heat their homes. I don't think the government have thought this through in detail. It's a response to the global warming issue to look like they are doing something.
I'm never giving up my woodburner! I'll barricade the house before anyone takes it !
The amount of electricity needed to power all these new electric cars and heating systems isn't achievable with renewable sources at present levels. Watch them try to build more nuclear power stations!
I fully agree with you.
I have a diesel heater for my radiators on the boat..no good in the dead of winter what so ever..98% off boaters rely on smokeless Cole & wood for warmth.
if it’s mechanical it will break down,(then your stuffed)a stove is invaluable to anyone who has no means off other heating?
 
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uncleboob

Full Member
Dec 28, 2012
910
50
Coventry and Warwickshire
I fully agree with you.
I have a diesel heater for my radiators on the boat..no good in the dead of winter what so ever..98% off boaters rely on smokeless Cole & wood for warmth.
if it’s mechanical it will break down,(then your stuffed)a stove is invaluable to anyone who has no means off other heating?

...we too are reliant on wood and coal for heating. We took out the diesel heating due to the cost of running it v’s effectiveness...only good in autumnal evening and spring mornings! We do have radiators but via a back boiler. TBH I can’t imagine there’s many boaters that burn wet wood...as far as I understand it it’s coal in bags that’s being phased out initially


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
5,237
1,008
Lancashire
My partner wants a wood burner in the new house but we've agreed it's best not to. Her parents or one in and it got used about 4 times. Too much hassle for her dad. In our case it's particulates stopping us and the fact it doesn't work with a modern, efficient Central heating system. One day is like one of the electrical supplied great exchanges air source heating systems. There's no place for woodburners in a modern house IMHO. That might be unpopular opinion but it's mine.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,893
2,772
S. Lanarkshire
The houses I grew up in had coal fires, and those fires were the sole source of heating for the entire house, and the only source of heating hot water bar a kettle.
Later on my Dad fitted an electric immerser hot water tank. It was considered both expensive to install and very expensive to run, but we didn't need to light the fire in Summer just to have hot water for baths.

Folks think it's practical to have an alternative, to be 'self sufficient', to be somehow the sole provider of their heating.
In reality it means tedious work, dirty skies, filthy chimneys and fires/stoves that need cleaned pretty much every day in life.
Been there, done that, not doing it again.
Wake up to a frozen house, have to light the fire to get any warmth going. Come home from work in the dark in Winter and the house is frozen and you have to light the fire to get any heat, or hot water.
Time and place.

I like fires as much as any of us, but the reality is that most of us live a suburban kind of life and open fires and stoves aren't tenable, not for everyone for everyday use.

Our towns and cities were filthy when I was little. They were black with coal smoke, people suffered hellishly with lung problems, and if your lungs don't work well then your heart struggles.
The very rain was dirty, washing left out in rain had to be re-washed because of black streaks.

Rightly, folks complain about particulate matter being the cause of ill health.

The amazing transformation of our country around every village and town, the vast re-greening of trees, etc., is simply because folks no longer forage and gather every stick they can for the fire.

I know the production of electricty isn't without problems, but we are getting very much better at the technology and at much more efficient at our usage.
 

C_Claycomb

Mod
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
6,708
1,641
Bedfordshire
...There's no place for woodburners in a modern house IMHO. That might be unpopular opinion but it's mine.
Tell that to the Swedes. ;)

Although, in a literal sense, yeah, a stove would not be a good fit in a modern UK new-build housing estate box. I watched them build "modern" houses near where I worked and the whole chimney thing on the roof was made of plastic! They had what at first glance looked like a brick chimney, but it was plastic thin enough you could see light through it from the inside!
 
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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,893
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S. Lanarkshire
Some of the stoves that were built in Europe in the past were huge, they were of clay and tiled and they absorbed heat like a modern storage heater. They were comparatively frugal with fuel and slowly radiated heat.
The modern DIY version uses an oildrum full of hot water, it's called a Rocket Mass Heater.
 
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Woody girl

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Mar 31, 2018
3,251
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Exmoor
A lot of people round here rely on oil to heat their homes. Sometimes the air realy stinks of heating oil. Realy unpleasant and that tells you its unhealthy.
Someone was burning something awful coal wise the other day. Not sure what particular coal they were using, but the smoke was billowing out and you could smell it several hundred yards away. I do know that particular house has an old fashoned open fire, and the guy will burn anything on it.
Everytime I have my chimney swept, the chap moans it was hardly worth doing!
I do use very dry logs and smokeless coal. Seems to work well. Even when the fire is going full belt you can barely see any smoke.
The Joy's of a very efficient multi fuel stove.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
36,893
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S. Lanarkshire
Isn't it funny though ? I know that burning hydrocarbons is not a good idea really, but I love the smell of hot paraffin :)
It was such a happy piece of my childhood. It smells of the comfort of a warm cared for house. People used to put the little flying saucer shaped stoves in the bathroom to stop the pipes freezing. It was used to keep the greenhouse just warm enough to stop the frost killing the seedlings. We used it in the Tilley lantern and stove when we camped.

Our local coal is very good, and it burns clean and bright. It smells of coal not burnt oil when it burns.
A few of our neighbours in the older houses still burn coal fires. That smell, and soup simmering, when walking down the street in Autumn or Winter still gives me that feeling of comfort, of quiet, warm, decent homes.

I am very glad that we don't all burn them though, because the filthy air was so harmful in so many ways.
Everything grows green round here now. Even the street sign at the end of the road grows green and needs washed down when they do the bus shelters. Every fence is green with algae, the area is rich with lichens and mosses and fungi again. Much healthier.
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
2,019
956
Vantaa, Finland
We have had wood stoves in our summer cottage for the last 60 or so years, wood central heating for the last 30. Wood stove is not quite as fast as el or gas but boiling the tea water does not take long. In winter when central heating is used I burn every other day when cold and every third when not.

Central heating is based on a 1000l water tank that stores the heat. Warm water and central heating use that. We do have a closed fire place that is used sometimes but that is not in any way necessary.

Chimneys are swept once a year, seems enough.

And now you are telling me it does not work!? :eek:
 

billycoen

Forager
Jan 26, 2021
234
147
north wales
Going back to the 1960's,during the winter months my grand dad would get up early and keep the fire in,i remember him raking the coals just enough to keep them going,and then later on he would add more coal and draw it by using the News of the World.Seems me grand dad was into a bit of bushcrafting and he didn't even know it.
 
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slowworm

Full Member
May 8, 2008
1,380
381
Devon
Folks think it's practical to have an alternative, to be 'self sufficient', to be somehow the sole provider of their heating.
Although I agree they're not for everyday use in built up areas, when I lived in the suburbs of London we had quite a few lengthy power cuts in the depths of winter so normal heating didn't work. An open fire was essential backup.

Now I'm out in the sticks we don't have mains gas, I don't like the stench of oil and electric is also not overly reliable. So, a wood burner fits fairly well. I'm not overly worried about the emissions as nothing is done about people having huge bonfires burning up plastic etc.

Even electric heating isn't that clean when you look into it. Wood pellets being shipped around the world by ships belching out some of the worst forms of particulates. There's also a shocking amount of wood being driven hundreds of miles around the country by diesel powered lorries.

Also this legislation is poorly written. It doesn't stop someone burning wet wood, or plastic or other harmful stuff.
 
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