Bad trades/sales

[John Fenna]

I am not sure this is in the right place - but it is a "how do I?"
How do I go about chasing people for my money/goods when trades/sales go bad?
There are a couple of folk who I have sent goods to, some as straight sales, some as trades, some as a mix of both, who have not sent back the goods, not sent me the money or trade goods in return or not sent a combination of money and goods as agreed.
These folks are members of good standing on this site, but are not replying to my PMs.
The amounts due are not worth chasing through the courts but still hurt me financially as well as eroding my trust in humanity!
Do I just "take it on the chin" and kiss the dosh/trades goodbye?
Do I stop trading on this site?:sadwavey:
Do I wait until I meet them at a Meet or Moot and beat the value out of their hides (I am no Ninja, but everyone has to sleep sometime...)?:twak:
Do I just publicise their names in big red letters as pieces of humanity of the lowest order, who should be avoided at all costs never traded with or spoken to by any other site member?
Or a combination of all of these options?
You know who you are folks (I am not refering to those good souls with whom I have comunicated and given "extended credit" )- and I am getting a bit Teed off here!
If this post is seen as inapropriate in any way I apologise to the Mods and will take their advice on which bits to cut....

 

[Matt Weir]

Obviously I don't know any details but would hope that it's down to folk being on holiday - or worse swine flu?

I hope things are resolved soon and it turns out to be innocent.

Best of luck John.

 

[tobes01]

If all goes wrong...
- If it's a PayPal trade then raise it with their Dispute Resolution Centre
- Small Claims Court can be cheap and you'll get the fee back if/when you win (3 successful cases to my name, very easy to use)
- And in one case, many years ago, I drove half way across the country to the house of a car dealer who'd effectively stolen my car from me (long story) and took a photo of his wife dropping the kids off at school. Creepy, but it did the job ;-)

Tobes

 

[Tadpole]

I am not sure this is in the right place - but it is a "how do I?"
How do I go about chasing people for my money/goods when trades/sales go bad?
There are a couple of folk who I have sent goods to, some as straight sales, some as trades, some as a mix of both, who have not sent back the goods, not sent me the money or trade goods in return or not sent a combination of money and goods as agreed.
These folks are members of good standing on this site, but are not replying to my PMs.
The amounts due are not worth chasing through the courts but still hurt me financially as well as eroding my trust in humanity!
Do I just "take it on the chin" and kiss the dosh/trades goodbye?
Do I stop trading on this site?:sadwavey:
Do I wait until I meet them at a Meet or Moot and beat the value out of their hides (I am no Ninja, but everyone has to sleep sometime...)?:twak:
Do I just publicise their names in big red letters as pieces of humanity of the lowest order, who should be avoided at all costs never traded with or spoken to by any other site member?
Or a combination of all of these options?
You know who you are folks (I am not refering to those good souls with whom I have comunicated and given "extended credit" )- and I am getting a bit Teed off here!
If this post is seen as inapropriate in any way I apologise to the Mods and will take their advice on which bits to cut....

My tactics would be two fold, Name and Shame, and take a deposit from people whom I don't personally know. Of on trade goods wait until you’ve received the trade goods first, before sending out your trade. You know you’re not going to cheat anyone, your Rep is such that people trust you, so you have nothing to lose. Where as they [generic they, not pointing fingers] have everything to gain, namely your goods for nothing.
People not paying or not wanting the items they asked me to make, this is getting more common, well that and people asking you to make stuff and then when you have, either telling you that "hope you don't mind but I don't want the [for example a 60" 3/4” white leather belt] anymore." After I'd bought the alum dyed leather and the buckle. I’m left with goods that I’ve paid for and no use.

 

[tobes01]

Btw I did suggest the idea of a 'name and shame' thread and a 'good work fella' thread in the classifieds area, but nobody seemed interested at the time - maybe it's time to change that?

 

[Tony]

I think that's a well structured post to be honest John, we generally avoid getting involved in things like this. You've made your point and i'm sure that others will be able to empathise or comment without turning this into a name and shame rant, although I appreciate it's hard not to.

Leave it as it is, we'll see what happens and if no joy in a while PM me all the names so i can make a note to see if there's any serial non payers that need to be booted.

 

[Tony]

Btw I did suggest the idea of a 'name and shame' thread and a 'good work fella' thread in the classifieds area, but nobody seemed interested at the time - maybe it's time to change that?

maybe it's not

 

[sapper1]

I agree with John and Tony.I've lost quite a bit in trades and sales where the money doesn't arrive or the trade goods don't arrive.Sometimes things are lost in the post(allegedly) and sometimes PM's are ignored.Very often the poster is never heard from again.I have even lost goods to posters who have been here for a long time and were regular posters.
As Tony says naming and shaming can be a bad thing because sometimes things happen beyond our control and things do get forgotten,PM'ing admin is probably the best way to go so that regular defaulters can be sorted.This doesn't help those who have lost out but will prevent others losing out.

 

[John Fenna]

Holidays and swine flu do not last that long!
I do not do Paypal on ethical grounds.
Small claims court costs time if not money and I have one outstanding creditor who made a promis to pay £5 a week on a debt and then never did - waste of my time and effort!

99% of the deals I do are fine (and I thank you all) but some will always go bad I guess!

 

[scanker]

Not been on BB for a while, but they had some sort of trader rep, which seemed to work quite well. That, or bring back the rep system may help this sort of thing?

 

[Dougster]

I trade on BB a lot, I got stung on here and stopped doing so much. No fault of the forum, in fact because things had gone so well with the vast majority of members I became complacent.

iTrader on BB makes things a hell of a lot easier to monitor who is doing well and who is extracting the Michael.

What has helped me in the past and effectively ground those to a halt 'stealing' from others is see who posts a reply to their sales and get a pm in to explain to the person they are about to get into discussions with what they have done to you. I have done this sort of thing whilst looking at used cars with google. I was saved a lot of pain when a member who had lost good sent me a quiet pm.

Best of luck John, knowing what an honest, open and thoroughly decent bloke you are to trade with this must be galling for you.

 

[Joonsy]

Hi John Fenna --- it seems sales on this site are run by trust only, personally i think you should most definately name and shame anyone who doesn't pay or sends faulty goods, if sales are to be alllowed and conducted by trust only there should definately be some sort of system that allows members to view reputations regarding honesty for the benefit of all members not to mention the reputation of the site, as i understand it (correct me if i'm wrong) you have to be a full member and pay a fee to sell in classifields therefore the site should take some responsibilty in ensuring members are trustworthy and have a system warning all members of dishonest rogues. Anything run on trust is sure to end in abuse in all parts of society sadly. Give them an ultimatum, pay up in ? amount of days or be named on this site for everyone to see, be totally rigid with the amount of days and stick to it and do not be sweet-talked into sidelining the issue, Do Not do nothing and let it pass as they will go on to abuse other members.

 

[pteron]

I have to agree with the naming - how else do you prevent another member from being misled? Some of the deals I've done have been for hundreds of pounds - I'd be extremely unhappy if I was taken for a ride by a member and they'd done it to someone else previously and it was not made public.

 

[sandbender]

"...therefore the site should take some responsibilty in ensuring members are trustworthy and have a system warning all members of dishonest rogues. ..."

Tony provides the Member Classifieds as a convenience for us, he cannot and should not be asked to take any responsibility for how members conduct themselves when organizing sales between themselves.

John, you should name the culprits, specifying the dates agreements/sales were made and the attempts you have made to pursue payment. Even if the folks who are messing you around do pay up after having seen this thread, there will be nothing to stop them taking advantage of other members in the future.

P.S. did you ever drink the Unicum?

 

[robin wood]

Good to hear that the majority are still fine....mt faith in humanity is still there. Sorry about the issues and a well presented thread I thought.

I agree a name and shame easily turns into public witch hunt, it's a bit like the trial by press which seems to run public opinion at the moment and not helpful. PMs to admin who could then perhaps PM the offender asking for an explanation would seem a good way to go.

Some times there are two sides to a story and name and shame would unquestionably end in public slanging matches.

 

[Cromm]

Hi,
We could just ask John in a PM who the people are and mark it down in a book at home, That way we would all have a little black book of good or bad dealers,without having to witch hunt, maybe????

 

[Joonsy]

I have to agree with the naming - how else do you prevent another member from being misled? Some of the deals I've done have been for hundreds of pounds - I'd be extremely unhappy if I was taken for a ride by a member and they'd done it to someone else previously and it was not made public.

So would i, i would be furious, and certainly leave the site if it allowed known dishonest people to remain anonymous.

Do I just publicise their names in big red letters as pieces of humanity of the lowest order, who should be avoided at all costs never traded with or spoken to by any other site member?

Yes absolutely, they should be rooted out for the benefit of all honest members. The fact PM's are being ignored is a clear signal of their intent.

PM the offender asking for an explanation would seem a good way to go. -- Some times there are two sides to a story and name and shame would unquestionably end in public slanging matches.

PM's not much good if the offender refuses to reply. -- And if the offender makes no contact whatsoever hence not giving his story, is the victim not right to make known a cheat?

 

[Tony]

If there's ongoing issues then contact admin or mods and we'll have a look, sometimes things are easily sorted and sometimes they're not, I've even had some people stirring trouble for others by lying and the other party would have been very damaged by a witch hunt. See part of the problem isn't just those accused of stealing (not implying anything about you John) another part of the problem is that it's easy for threads to get out of hand as things become emotional, then a lot more people get damaged.

As I've said, I'm not going to allow the name and shame thing, if there's a history that we identify because people tell us rather than take things into their own hands we'll consider what to do.

Anyone can leave the site, that's a personal decision, but that also implies that we should trust you, someone we don't know over someone else on your say, experience of people says this is the wrong thing to do.

What Robin is saying (when kept in context) is that we as admin will contact via PM, i can also contact via other means if I agree it's needed. Then decisions can be made.

You can have your opinions on how things should be but on here they're just an opinion that gets taken on board and used if we agree (mainly me) if i don't it's not going to happen.

The majority of sales on here happen without a glitch, some go awry, if it's ongoing let us know, report the post or send a PM to us.

 

[John Fenna]

OK Tony
Having seen the replies to my OP I take on board all that has been said. Thanks to everyone who has made usefull comments
If things are not resolved by the time I get back from the Moot then I will PM you the full story
The silly thing is that I do have their real names and home addresses so I should be able to get "personal" contact if I get no joy with PMs......
Would it be an idea to lock this thread now...just in case people get carried away?

 

[Tony]

Cheers John, we can chat at the Moot