The Covid19 Thread

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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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Plasma? What’s the reasoning for that? I mean presumably any antibodies would be in whole blood wouldn’t they?
 

TLM

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Nov 16, 2019
3,092
1,624
Vantaa, Finland
Most antibodies (from memory) are fairly small proteins that stay in plasma when cells are taken away, helps when you don't need (apparently) to type blood either. If memory serves it has been tried in difficult viral infections before.
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
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Thanks for the link sensible is definatly needed, every time I look at the stats i see both sides broken data

I'm not sure about a self reporting app as a reliable source of info - in the early days they were only testing people reporting 'symptoms' and found very few actual cases compiared to the number of tests - something like 10% medically administered tests at the time

but also having undertaken the self test its clear why the false negative rate is somwhere around 30% - its actually tricky to do and needs a reasonable amount stoicism to do sucessfully :D


looking forward to doing this weekly :D
 
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Nice65

Brilliant!
Apr 16, 2009
6,440
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Thanks for the link sensible is definatly needed, every time I look at the stats i see both sides broken data

I'm not sure about a self reporting app as a reliable source of info - in the early days they were only testing people reporting 'symptoms' and found very few actual cases compiared to the number of tests - something like 10% medically administered tests at the time

but also having undertaken the self test its clear why the false negative rate is somwhere around 30% - its actually tricky to do and needs a reasonable amount stoicism to do sucessfully :D


looking forward to doing this weekly :D

Lee, the link above doesn’t require any testing, or downloading of the app, it’s mainly a good source of data. The site was created by Kings College London and looks to be a good source of info without the paranoia of dropping the UK Gov app onto your phone or computer. I’m fed up with being fed false numbers, bullshit, and being treated like a moron.
 

Corso

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Aug 13, 2007
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Lee, the link above doesn’t require any testing, or downloading of the app, it’s mainly a good source of data. The site was created by Kings College London and looks to be a good source of info without the paranoia of dropping the UK Gov app onto your phone or computer. I’m fed up with being fed false numbers, bullshit, and being treated like a moron.

good source of data maybe but a sort of good data i'm not so sure

what i mean is its unlikley to be the true reality of the situation

There are alot of unknowns in symptom reporting - never mind the percentage of silent carriers who are the real risk to the population.

At the begining 10's of thousands of people were tested with very few positive results just becasue people reported having the classic symptoms.

It would be like trying to calculate cancer statistics through self diagnosis of somone feeling a lump, it is not a diagnosis and should not be treated as such

all I can see it doing is drive down the mortality rate through mis-diagnosis
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
There's a bit of guesswork going on with diagnosis, even with entries on death certificates. We didn't know anyone who had had it or died until two days ago when two people we see around told us about COVID deaths in their family. One had a serious medical condition and went in for his treatment only to die of related issues. His death certificate have COVID 19 as cause of death despite him not having any symptoms. I've heard reports of similar too easy causes of deaths being used like that. Saves actually trying to find the cause of you simply put COVID 19 down perhaps. That's even before the people who actually did get it but didn't have any symptoms at all. Without 100% testing of patients before getting it put on the death certificate you'll never know for sure.
 
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Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
If you get tested 6 months on it would be interesting to see if your antibodies had dropped off or gone completely.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
It would be interesting to know if there drop and how quickly. If that's not too personal. It's just that there's a theory the protection getting it gives you fades quickly. You're not protected for long
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
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There's a bit of guesswork going on with diagnosis, even with entries on death certificates. We didn't know anyone who had had it or died until two days ago when two people we see around told us about COVID deaths in their family. One had a serious medical condition and went in for his treatment only to die of related issues. His death certificate have COVID 19 as cause of death despite him not having any symptoms. I've heard reports of similar too easy causes of deaths being used like that. Saves actually trying to find the cause of you simply put COVID 19 down perhaps. That's even before the people who actually did get it but didn't have any symptoms at all. Without 100% testing of patients before getting it put on the death certificate you'll never know for sure.

I think the issue issue there are 3 catagories all being lumped together

1) died of covid 19,
2) those who died of something else but also had a positive covid 19 test
3) those who has some symptoms and died before testing so are put down as suspected covid
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
There's a 4th category of no specific COVID 19 symptoms according to the person who's partner got it out on his death cert. He had another condition which often results in pneumonia as cause of death. He got that and they put COVID 19 down. I know of quite as few people who died with cancer but got pneumonia causing the death so had that on their death cert. During these times it's COVID instead. The other person I heard of went into hospital from a nursing home and died with symptoms that weren't specific to COVID. No COVID in the nursing home or in the place he loved in the weeks before he went there. There's no evidence that it was COVID but they put it down as COVID. I can understand you treat the body as if they could have had it any disinfect the room and handle the body with more care but to actually put it in the certificate, an official record of some importance. Can't they take a sample from a recently deceased? If it's that important to record it as COVID then why not make sure? I suppose that's because there's insufficient resources for that.
 

Paul_B

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 14, 2008
6,154
1,546
Cumbria
BTW there's different reporting criteria in different countries. USA has a lower death per 100,000 people than Belgium but they only record COVID deaths that the patient had a positive test for. Belgium record death as COVID if there's any possibility it was a factor. They prefer to capture every case even if that puts the error in the death figure towards the over estimation side. USA is under recording. Funnily enough there's a big suspicion Russia is doing the same with especial doubt on st Petersburg figures.

Which is better, over recording or under recording? It's not important for actual containment because they'll sterilise every room between patients no matter what caused the death. It's only important for statistics and decisions made using those statistics.
 

Corso

Full Member
Aug 13, 2007
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Which is better, over recording or under recording? It's not important for actual containment because they'll sterilise every room between patients no matter what caused the death. It's only important for statistics and decisions made using those statistics.

Its important because people like numbers

and giving people what they like helps when you want to control them
 

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