Anchoring knot

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Bushcraftsman

Native
Apr 12, 2008
1,368
5
Derbyshire
Hi folks,

I'm just wondering. Let's say for example you are stuck on a cliff edge. And there just happens to be a handy tree. You've also got some rope to hand...funny how things like that work out ;). Anyway my question is. After using the tree and rope etc to rappel down is there any way of retrieving the rope? Like a special knot that keeps tight under friction but when the load is removed (say when you get to the bottom) you can loosen it and get the rope back from the bottom?

Cheers
Jordan
 

John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,109
2,843
66
Pembrokeshire
Just drape the rope equally over the tree and ab down the doubled rope... pull one side to retrieve the rope once you are safely down:)
 

wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
like john says as long as you load both sides equally thats the easiest way. if the rope isn't long enough to be used doubled then there are knots that can be undone from the bottom but they require another line to undo them
 

bilmo-p5

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 5, 2010
8,168
9
west yorkshire
Tie an overhand or fig.8 in one end of your rope. Lay that end on the ground and lead the other end around the tree, over the knotted end and throw the remainder over the cliff. Theoretically weight on the over-the-cliff end would hold that part hard against the ground and stop the knotted end from pulling through underneath it. Once at the foot of the cliff, a simple flick of the rope would free it and let it drop.
This is a variation on the Blackwall hitch and should only be considered if you have the nastiest of nasty things on your tail.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,976
13
In the woods if possible.
I guess Jordan means the rope isn't long enough to go up the cliff and down again.

Years ago I worked at a French-owned explosives manufacturer. A Frenchman I worked with showed me exactly this sort of knot, he said he'd learned it in the army. AFAICT he never learned much of any use in the army, including this knot. He tied it for me (I think it was on a stem pipe running along the ceiling in the R&D lab where we both worked) and showed me how it was supposed to work. I took my weight on it and it immediately let go. I said "So I'm dead now?" He said "Oui".

You could make a 'slipped' bowline for example and use a bit of very light cord to pull the slip. When you got to the bottom you'd break the cord with the rope to get the rope back. Only trouble is you'd need a bit of light cord as well as the rope. If you didn't want to break the cord you could do something with a loop doubled around the strong point and a toggle. I'm not fond of toggles for life-threatening situations.

If you could be sure to descend within a few minutes you could light a fire that would burn through the far end of the rope after you got to the bottom. All sorts of ways really. You could smear it with bacon fat and wait for the local wildlife to chew through it like they did to the line supporting one of my feeders (80 feet up a radio mast) last year. I had to go up there to thread a new line through the pulley but I didn't use any fancy knot to get back down again. :)

The Blackwall hitch is a bit different. I've used it a great deal for lifting heavy things with chain blocks but it is only intended for slinging something from a hook as shown in Bilmo's link. There must be a steady pull on it to keep it secure, don't ever use it for climbing.
 

Limaed

Full Member
Apr 11, 2006
1,288
67
48
Perth
Some climbers expecting to abseil a lot might carry the same length of paracord as their rope. A figure of eight on the bight is tied in the one end and the rope threaded through it. The knot is pulled down once you are on the ground.
Personally I'rd rather multi-pitch abseil and leave some gear behind if that's what was required, jammed abseil ropes are a real can of worms.
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,976
13
In the woods if possible.
... Personally I'rd rather multi-pitch abseil and leave some gear behind ...

I really hate the idea of leaving stuff behind, especially if it contains man-made filaments which can do terrible damage to wildlife.

"Leave nothing but your thanks", as someone once said.
 

Perrari

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 21, 2012
3,090
1
Eryri (Snowdonia)
www.erknives.com
John Fenna's answer is the only sensible solution here, that is what rock climbers do all the time !Who would like to put their life on a knot that undoes itself when free of weight ? This could happen on the way down !!! Of course if you are really in the S%*t, and a rope doubled will not reach the bottom, then tie the rope around the tree using a figure of eight knot abseil down & leave the rope there, you can always retrieve it later.
What about going up ?? If you find yourself stuck on a ledge, then presumably it is nearer the top than the bottom,(unless you have climbed up to that point) so you may be better off tying the rope to the tree and to yourself allowing enough slack to reach the top ??
The best solution is not to put yourself in that situation anyway !
Eifion
 
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Lister

Settler
Apr 3, 2012
992
1
36
Runcorn, Cheshire
Tie a hangman noose, to the bottom point of the noose knot, tie some paracord and throw it down, once down, pull on the paracord till the noose knot is down to you, undo the noose knot and then pull the rest of the rope down to you.

No idea if that's practical but then i was always an ideas person, not a practical person :lmao:
 

skate

Nomad
Apr 13, 2010
260
0
East Devon
Bear Grylls once showed a way where you tie round the tree with a bowline or something similar then tie a sheepshank in the rope but once tied cut the middle strand. The sheepshank will work as long as pressure is maintained on the rope. When you reach the bottom a simple shake will release the rope except for the short end around the tree. I believe it was called a suicide knot or something similar for obvious reasons. I haven't tried it and don't intend to :)
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
Tie a hangman noose, to the bottom point of the noose knot, tie some paracord and throw it down, once down, pull on the paracord till the noose knot is down to you, undo the noose knot and then pull the rest of the rope down to you.

No idea if that's practical but then i was always an ideas person, not a practical person :lmao:

Wont the noose knot constrict and prevent it sliding back down to you,in fact as I don't know lets give it a go, a bit of garden knot trialling is called for I think:)
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Either double the rope and ab down both lines twinned (easiest and most common), or...

tie an overhand loop or alpine butterfly in the middle, loop over tree and pop one end through the loop. Ab down the line going through the loop then pull on the end with the loop in it to retrieve. Or if the rope is not long enough to do that...

tie the alpine butterfly at a length where the descent rope will just reach the ground and make up the missing length on the retrieval line with string / bootlaces / items of clothing, as the retrieval line is non load bearing. Or...

Copy Bear Grylls and quite possibly kill yourself. Up to you.
 

Retired Member southey

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jun 4, 2006
11,098
13
your house!
or, if you have a long enough length of cord, tie a figure 8 loop, run around your anchor, free end through loop and down the face, then tie your retreval line to the figure eight loop, abseil down then once down pull the loop down to your self, to retrieve your rope:)

I tried the noose one on the stairs and the friction of pulling the knot once tightened wasnt to bad though once a stopper knot was added it didnt work at all,
 

Wayland

Hárbarðr
I usually use a doubled rope knotted together at the end (very important) and either a figure eight descender or a South African abseil if it's just steep ground.

I have used para cord to recover a Krab securing the upper end but you have a lot of weight to lift back up if you are bringing a whole rope down and the friction adds to the problem.

Otherwise...

[video=youtube;xhgejLLNlh8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpag e&v=xhgejLLNlh8[/video]
 

Landy_Dom

Nomad
Jan 11, 2006
436
1
50
Mold, North Wales
Best of all for an ab line is a tied off italian hitch so if the abseiler has a problem you can lower (or completely drop) the ab line. Assuming a seperate safety line is also used. Most secure non-releasable anchor knot would be a doubled figure 8 with a 2 turn stopper knot on the tail. Don't get anything caught in the descender on your way down with this method though :)
 

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