Air pistol for rabbits?

[BorderReiver]

My Hungarian Wirehaired Vizsla is a dab hand at finding and pointing out bunnies in bushes.

Now I am rubbish with a throwing stick; the bunnies are in a bush and can't be whacked with a walking stick; when they run off the dog's after them (not trained).

Question: Is it legal and is an air pistol powerful enough at less than 2 metres to shoot a bunny in a bush?

 

[Siberianfury]

A Rabbit needs a headshot of an energy minimum of 2-3 ft/lb at point blank, if your pistol is shooting that only a point blank shot would be acceptable, however, if its 4-6 its possible to take a rabbit at a longer range than the one you described, with a headshot of course.
Is it legal? no idea mate.shouldnt be a problem.

ATB
Josh

 

[British Red]

People despatch mink (point blank) with an air pistol (6ftlb).

Personally, I am a "use enough gun" type of guy, so I wouldn't do it myself. You would certainly need written permission from every landowner whose land you cross with the gun (its a criminal offense of armed trespass otherwise) and it would have to be cased on any footpath.

HTH Red

 

[Siberianfury]

id be happy and confident to dispatch rabbit with an air pistol at 10m, 2m should be no problem.
ATB
Josh

 

[tobes01]

No, no, no. Sorry, it's not morally right. Sure, you can nail a bunny with an air pistol at point blank if you don't like pulling its neck (e.g. when it's snared or injured), but it stands to reason that the odds of getting a runner compared with an air rifle are much greater. If you're comfortable with injured rabbits on your conscience then go for it, but it's not for me...

 

[BorderReiver]

Thanks for the replies.

I would only shoot with permission and I usually get within two or three feet of the rabbits before they bolt.

Now I'll have to look around for an air pistol.

 

[BorderReiver]

No, no, no. Sorry, it's not morally right. Sure, you can nail a bunny with an air pistol at point blank if you don't like pulling its neck (e.g. when it's snared or injured), but it stands to reason that the odds of getting a runner compared with an air rifle are much greater. If you're comfortable with injured rabbits on your conscience then go for it, but it's not for me...

No I wouldn't be happy, that's why I stopped shooting and beating; too many "lost" birds and hares trying to run on broken legs.

The bunnies I am talking about are sitting tight in cover with a dog marking them. I can get close enough to clout them with a stick, if it wasn't for the bush stopping the stick. No chance of missing or I wouldn't even consider it.

 

[tjwuk]

No, not in the UK with a legal limit of 6ft/lbs max. My HW45 (5.5ft/lbs) will kill pigeons at less than 10 mtrs but I won't do it as a head shot is too difficult with a pistol.

Really you need the full legal limit, or over 11ft/lbs to be correct unless you like torture!

Its only my oplinion but I have shot and despatched lots of rabbits, squirells and chickens to know you do it quickly, as I would prefer if it was me on the receiving end.

 

[Graham_S]

I still wouldn't do it, Air pistols just aren't powerful enough, but animal cruelty is between you and your conscience.

 

[Neumo]

At very close range it may be doable but you should not really do it. A lot of AirPistols actually only do 2 or 3 foot/pounds even though the law says they can go up to 6 tt/lbs. It's only when you chrono them them you get to know this as lots of people think they are doing 5 or 6. Pretty much all Co2 pistols & PCPs are like this. You have to tune up most pistols to get to 5 ft/lbs and over and you have to be very careful you dont go ver the limit, as getting caught with a hot pistol is much more serious than geting caught with an air rifle that is over (which a lot of people dont know); there is a reason why they are half the power in the UK.

Hunting with a pistol at anything over a few yards is frowned upon within the UK Airgun scene for good reason. Getting an accurate hit 95%+ of the time is harder than most people think, bearing in mind you realy want to be hitting a killzone the size of a 50p piece on the rabbits head to do it properly. Yes you can do it some of the time but the vast majority of the people cant, especially if there is any kind of a wind blowing; bearing in mind that you are using a gun with 1/2 to 1/4 the power of a rifle.

The law of armed trespass is a pretty serious offence & you are more likely to meet the local armed response unit if you are seen to be up to no good with an air pistol rather than a rifle. So it's probably best to leave those few rabbits unless you have signed permission from the landowner, in which case you should be using a rifle. Some thngs in life are not worth it. Hope that helps but there is more to this than some folk realise. It's like hunting rabbits on the road side, which leagally belongs to the Queen (AFAIK) & is the other common minefield that some people get themselves into.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Your question requires both legal and moral answers - and the replies so far have already alluded to those.
Legally, you will be obliged to have written shooting permission from every landowner as BR mentioned. The dodgy ground comes when you might be walking over land - over which you do not have permission to shoot - with your pistol. Not only does the law view that as "armed trespass" (BR again) but you might be acting in direct opposition to the wishes of that landowner, thus commiting "aggrevated trespass".
The moral position is a little more "grey"- the muzzle energy limit is 6 ft/lb for air-pistols and I seem to recall reading a minimum of 4 ft/lb to penetrate a rabbit skull ( J Darling, Rabbit Control - but not certain of this). This means that you will have to be very close to the animal to effect a kill (sorry SF but I recon a lot closer than your 10 meter max) where a twitch of the animal could cause an injury rather than its immediate end - whereupon a whole world of "animal cruelty" breaks loose.

My reccommendation would be to do a bucketfull of research, starting with BASC membership and legal advice team, and then, if you feel that the answer is worth reporting, let us know your findings.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[BigShot]

Folks - just to clarify for those who may have missed it... he asked about shooting from around 2m away - that's just over 6 feet. Not 10 metres, not the 20 to 30yards air rifles are often shot from - just 2 paces away.

A pistol is like any other gun - used correctly and with practice, it's accurate.

If 6ft-lbs is enough to get a clean kill (with a good headshot) it's no different to an air rifle - and with the shorter gap between trigger and impact there's less chance of the bunnie moving too.

I think it's really a bit much to call it "animal cruelty" unless we're assuming he's a hopeless shot who couldn't hit the centre of a target if the muzzle was glued to the bullseye and won't have any practice before he tries shooting bunnies from the hip at 5 metres.



EDIT
I think Orgi's suggestion about BASC is a good one.
Also the legal aspects people have mentioned are pretty much my understanding of things.

Neumo "there is a reason why they are half the power in the UK"
Why's that then? Nothing to do with nonsensical and ineffective legislation surely?

 

[tobes01]

No I wouldn't be happy, that's why I stopped shooting and beating; too many "lost" birds and hares trying to run on broken legs.

The bunnies I am talking about are sitting tight in cover with a dog marking them. I can get close enough to clout them with a stick, if it wasn't for the bush stopping the stick. No chance of missing or I wouldn't even consider it.

BTW, sorry if I over-reacted, and please don't mistake me for a bunny-hugger, but this is important stuff. I have a gun in the local shoot, and love it because we only shoot small numbers and move mountains to find runners. But on rough shoots I've shot stationary rabbits with a .410 at 6ft and seen them run (if only to find somewhere to die), and I couldn't condone the use of an air pistol. I hunt rabbits with a .22 AA S410TDR which is a really light rifle that breaks down to pocket size - really worth considering if you want something to carry.

Tobes

 

[rik_uk3]

NO to hunting bunny with an air pistol, even 2 metres, these weapons are not really up to much.

 

[BorderReiver]

Folks - just to clarify for those who may have missed it... he asked about shooting from around 2m away - that's just over 6 feet. Not 10 metres, not the 20 to 30yards air rifles are often shot from - just 2 paces away.

A pistol is like any other gun - used correctly and with practice, it's accurate.

If 6ft-lbs is enough to get a clean kill (with a good headshot) it's no different to an air rifle - and with the shorter gap between trigger and impact there's less chance of the bunnie moving too.

I think it's really a bit much to call it "animal cruelty" unless we're assuming he's a hopeless shot who couldn't hit the centre of a target if the muzzle was glued to the bullseye and won't have any practice before he tries shooting bunnies from the hip at 5 metres.


EDIT
I think Orgi's suggestion about BASC is a good one.
Also the legal aspects people have mentioned are pretty much my understanding of things.

Neumo "there is a reason why they are half the power in the UK"
Why's that then? Nothing to do with nonsensical and ineffective legislation surely?

30 years full bore pistol practise before the enforced "retiral" should help.

 

[BorderReiver]

NO to hunting bunny with an air pistol, even 2 metres, these weapons are not really up to much.

Like everything else, there are rubbish air pistols and there are excellent air pistols.

There are a few which will allow a good shot to place a group the size of a one pence piece at 10 metres.

 

[FGYT]

Your question requires both legal and moral answers - and the replies so far have already alluded to those.
Legally, you will be obliged to have written shooting permission from every landowner as BR mentioned. The dodgy ground comes when you might be walking over land - over which you do not have permission to shoot - with your pistol. Not only does the law view that as "armed trespass" (BR again) but you might be acting in direct opposition to the wishes of that landowner, thus commiting "aggrevated trespass".
The moral position is a little more "grey"- the muzzle energy limit is 6 ft/lb for air-pistols and I seem to recall reading a minimum of 4 ft/lb to penetrate a rabbit skull ( J Darling, Rabbit Control - but not certain of this). This means that you will have to be very close to the animal to effect a kill (sorry SF but I recon a lot closer than your 10 meter max) where a twitch of the animal could cause an injury rather than its immediate end - whereupon a whole world of "animal cruelty" breaks loose.

My reccommendation would be to do a bucketfull of research, starting with BASC membership and legal advice team, and then, if you feel that the answer is worth reporting, let us know your findings.

ATB

Ogri the trog

yes its legal to use an airpistol for shooting same as an air rifle
only legal problem i could see in court is if they try to prove its inadiquate therefore cruel think thats the wildlife act 1981 which is a power thing

3-4 ft lbs is the genrerally accepted energy on impact to dispatch a rabbit with a correctly placed head shot. ( as an asside a 12 frt lb 177 air rifle will have this at 100m so arguing its not powerfull enough and you need a 22 at 40 yrds is rubbish)
so you need to have this avalible at the range you shoot at. A true 5.9ft lb pistol is what you need
and as pointed out below a over 6ft lb airgun is a Section 5 fire arm (same as an MP5 etc ) where as a over 12ft lb air rife is a Section 1 fire arm so be careful going to close most will be 5 out of the box as a max most are a lot less and CO2 is very inconsitant and temperature dependant

you then need to place the pellet on target with in your power range if you can do this then yes

personnaly i wouldnt as im rubbish with a pistol
2 m is not an unaceptable range i would say

the armed tresspass dodgy ground thing it is the same if you where carrying an air rifle and as he said its for use on land HE has permission etc we dont have to use that as a reason specific to a pistol etc


ATB

Duncan

 

[joejoe]

id be happy and confident to dispatch rabbit with an air pistol at 10m, 2m should be no problem.
ATB
Josh

what kind of pistol would kill a rabbit at 10 mtrs

 

[FGYT]

what kind of pistol would kill a rabbit at 10 mtrs

a heavy one

 

[rawshak]

Have you considered using a catapult? You can get close to 18ft/lb with a good hunters catapult, and pretty accurate too (and it'll fit in your pocket). Same rules apply regarding permissions too, and bare in mind, a catapult isn't supposed to be your primary method of hunting.