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Will Butchers sharpen knives?

Discussion in 'Edged Tools' started by Zammo, Jul 2, 2018.

  1. Billy-o

    Billy-o Native

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    I sometimes put the big diamond stone up against the rods of a Sharpmaker and use that as an angle- guide when putting an edge back on a really blunt old thing, or when completely reprofiling. Far from always, but it will work to put a specific edge on and then afterwards you will be able to use the Sharpmaker for tuning if you want. Don't try and re-profile with the Sharpmaker or the Fallkniven, though. You'll be at it for a decade.

    You can make a wooden block up too. Get a bit of wood and cut it at the angle you want, then rest an aggressive stone against it and sharpen away, keeping the blade perpendicular to the ground
     
  2. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Use a bevel angle meant for the service. Top quality kitchen prep knives are 20 degrees (10 each side), just like
    the best of the wood carving gouges.

    Jigs and good kitchen sharpeners are very useful to get the bevel into the correct range for what you're doing.

    Bushcraft and other general purpose edges, 25 degrees total included bevel angle.

    I was taught freehand sharpening. My body becomes the jig. Sharpen and hone from your knees, not your elbows.
    Like most things, there's a lot to learn to be consistent.
     
  3. Stew

    Stew Bushcrafter through and through

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    Marker pen, marker pen, marker pen.

    It really is one of the best tools for learning to sharpen.

    Don't compromise by succumbing to a machine or jig at this stage. You can do it and I'll bet once you start being able to see what you're removing that it'll come much quicker.
     
    Dave Budd likes this.
  4. Billy-o

    Billy-o Native

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    No, no, come to the dark side. Marker pen bad. :)

    You can do both, and more. We all do. There's a ton of options and it is fun.

    Really though, just get a knife you don't mind experimenting on - a Mora or something ... and, well, experiment til you get a feel for freehand and various ways of sharpening with jigs, on stones, stropping techniques with abrasive cloth, leather pads, pastes etc, and thinking about the construction of the edge .. different bevels, micro bevels, convexing.

    There is no set way of doing things, none at all. Just a basic principle of bringing the two sides of a piece of metal together in such a uniform way as they can produce an edge. After that it is all just tailoring to requirement.
     
    #24 Billy-o, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  5. Stew

    Stew Bushcrafter through and through

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    What's bad about it?

    Any left overs will clean up with a wet wipe easily enough and being able to see what steel is being removed is invaluable when learning.

    I even used that technique on a bigger level earlier while grinding a full height convex on a 5.5mm thick Leuku style blade and I've been doing this a while - still don't have specs good enough to tell me what's being removed against the belt.

    He's struggling. He doesn't know what is / isn't happening when removing steel. This will solve that.
     
    Billy-o likes this.
  6. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I think he wobbles with the blade, and removes the edge during the process. Gets the angle much to big.

    I sometimes ‘remind’ my hand with a clip on angle thingy when I do my Japsnese kitchen knives by hand. P.i.t.a. to use, scores the stones if I am not careful, but also not only gives me the correct sngle, it slso shows me that I during the process change the angle.
     
  7. Zammo

    Zammo Settler

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    Managed to sharpen up the Mora using the marker technique and the DC4.

    I think I now know where I was going wrong with my technique. Where I'm holding the blade against the stone its at too big an angle, so when I've had a better look at the grind I've created a secondary bevel on top of the scandi one. In the end I watched a few sharpening videos and came across one where someone was using a DC4 to regrind the bevel. I followed that and have now got the Mora so it can create feather sticks no problem, its still not as paper cutting sharp as i'd like it to be, but its definitely an improvement on before.



    I've just finished a nightshift so I'm too knackered to carry on and do the Trapper but it'll attempt it tomorrow.

    Thanks for every ones help and tips!
     
  8. salad

    salad Full Member

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    Sharpening takes practice, even for knives that are supposed to be easy . Just keep going you will get there in the end
     
  9. Stew

    Stew Bushcrafter through and through

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    Excellent!!
     
  10. Macaroon

    Macaroon A bemused & bewildered

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    Yep, excellent........good advice plus a little perseverance works wonders, eh? Glad you're on the path now :)
     
  11. Billy-o

    Billy-o Native

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    Nothing. Just kidding along. :) Very useful tip is the marker pen technique.
     
    Stew likes this.
  12. Buckshot

    Buckshot Mod
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    Pleased something is working better for you now
    keep going and as your technique improves it will get as sharp as you want it
     
  13. Zammo

    Zammo Settler

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    Thanks!


    I'm going to attempt the Trapper today but one thing is puzzling me. The edge is quite wide (12 mm), when I sharpen it should I flatten the blade against my sharpening stone so its contacting the whole of the edge and sharpen the whole 12mm?
     
  14. Buckshot

    Buckshot Mod
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    Yes basically
    a primary bevel means the entire section is in contact with the sharpening stone. if you change the angle so only the very edge is in contact it creates a secondary bevel
    which is OK, it is just not how the knife was intended to be sharpened
     
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  15. Zammo

    Zammo Settler

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    Ok thanks.

    While I was waiting for a reply I re-sharpened the Mora and also an Opinel that I had and they're now both capable of slicing through paper with ease. Next step to get them shave sharp!
     
  16. Buckshot

    Buckshot Mod
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    Great job, well done
    for me, i don't get my blades any sharper than shave sharp. all my knives are users and so i want an edge that will work well but i don't need to touch up or rework every time i pick it up.
    i know some people will spend time getting a scary sharp edge, and that's great but it's not for me.
    I'm happy with something that will create feather sticks easily
     
    Zammo likes this.
  17. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Us older guys in Sweden always put a secondary bevel on those blades.
    In the field you can easily sharpen a mm wide bevel to satisfaction using a suitable stone, the unglazed part of a cup, a car window edge, whatever.
    A bevel in your example, 12mm, you can not, unless you carry a sharpener.

    Do not waste your time honing the edge to shaving sharp, or like some people do, highly polished!

    The first cut in wood, leather, rope and such, will dull it to ‘not shaving sharp’.
     
  18. Zammo

    Zammo Settler

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    Good to know as I think it'd take me ages to get them shave sharp.

    I attempted to sharpen the Trapper and that blade was so blunt it took me a good few goes to get it to a decent state.

    In the end I had to use the four sided sharpening block I had and work through the various grits. I then finished off using the DC4 which I mounted to a wooden block.

    It's now capable of creating feather sticks, but its not that sharp it'll glide through paper, it just sort of tears it atm. I'll probably give it another go tomorrow.

    TBH I don't particularly like the Trapper, even though I made it up. It has a stupid bit at the back of the blade which is just a lump of blunt metal, so its useless for carving. I'm thinking of getting a new knife, maybe a Lars Falt knife with curly birch handle, dribble.
     
    #38 Zammo, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  19. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

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    Useless lumpy bits of metal? Chalk up a mill file and cut them off.
    Re-shape the knife to suit your needs = it's your knife. Get what you will be happy with.

    I have changed nearly 2 dozen farrier's hoof knives into very comfortable wood carving knives for spoons & bowls.
    First step is always a good slash with a chalked up chainsaw file to rough down the bevel from 25 degrees to 12 degrees.
     
  20. Zammo

    Zammo Settler

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