Which centrefire calibre?

[jamie18thmo]

Hi,
I'm hopefully looking to buy my first full-bore centrefire rifle soon and I'm wondering what calibre to go for. I'm thinking of a 7mm 08., .308Win, .270, .243 or similar.
I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice based on their experience with these or similar calibres. Which makes/models do you prefer. Has anyone got/used a Mossberg 100 ATR? What do you reckon?
I'll be wanting to use it for Red, Fallow, Sika, pigs and maybe other smaller game (goats, wallaby). I know there is no perfect choice, but which do you think is closest?
I'm in New Zealand and I know there will be lots of advice to be had here, but I'd still like to hear from folks back in the UK and elsewhere.
Sorry if this doesn't relate to a lot of you out there.
Thanks,
Jamie

 

[Matt Mallery]

jamie,

For the size game you are talking about, the .270 or .308 would be great. My father has several .270s and I have a Ruger M77 .308 that I love. They are both popular in most places so finding reasonably priced ammo is not a problem in the USA, and I would think they are popular in NZ as well. I famous American hunter and writer, I believe it was Jack O' Conner, said the .270 was a perfect caliber. It is powerful enough for some bigger game like Caribou, moose, and elk if you decide to ever travel.

 

[British Red]

Certainly both the .270 or .308 are good choices - although I haven't hunted deer both are ballistically capable as is one of my favourite calibres the .243. The.243 is basically a necked down .308 shooting a 7mm round. Its considered a capable round on Red in the UK so should manage the other deer species okay. The pig I can't answer for without knowing what sort. Guys I know who have gone after wild boar generally favour something short and fast handling with a fairly heavy calibre. I don't know if you are talking feral pig or the size of them though. Anything that will manage the above will cope with smaller game although you might well want a different load. If you hadn't thrown the pig into the mix I would have said .243 but having heard how hard it can be to stop a boar in close wooded areas (don't know if thats what you had in mind) I'd be tempted by the .308 - a great all around calibre and widely available. No idea on what your budget is, but again think about the nature of prey and hunting with your set up - long deer shots in open terrain sai a good bolt action rifle with reasonable optics to me - Remington 700, Tikka, Steyr there are lots of choices. Close woodland hunting imples shorter barrel and fast target acquisition - irons, or red dot or IER small scope would be a good choice on a short barrelled heavy calbre.

Hope that helps a little

Red

 

[KAE1]

I use a .270 Parker Hale with hand loaded 110 grain, this gives a fast, flat bullet that seems to suit my stalking, which is woodland/arable average range I guess 80 metres, Fallow/Roe/Muntjac and Red when I can catch up with one!

I agree with Red that the .243 is a great round but, in my view, not 'ideal' for big red stags, though many stalkers use them successfully on reds,not sure about your wild pigs - I think they are smaller than wild boar? but for wild boar a .243 is considered too light.

So I'd go for a .270 (130 - 150 grain) or .308 but........ I am not a ballistics expert. My love of deerstalking is 99% nature 1% ballistics.

There are still some very good, very cheap ParkerHales out there.

 

[pothunter]

Hi Jamie

Never visited NZ but I’m guessing that the deer will be mostly on the hills, I like the .308 it will do the business at longer ranges and has good stability. You may find yourself trying to cope with many and varied weather conditions including wind and rain and in my experience the .308 will give you an edge, you will however have more meat damage which is one of the reasons I no longer use .308, that and the fact that I no longer have any hill stalking.

Mossbergs will not win a beauty pageant but they are as tough as old boots and totally reliable cant vouch for their accuracy, I would really want to try before buying at the ranges you expect to be using it. Before going down the .45/70 route I looked at Tikka Hunter and was quite impressed they have good reports in the press.

Goats I’m told don’t take a lot of stopping its getting to them that can be tricky and recovering them can be difficult.

Pigs, woodland critters at closer ranges need hitting hard that’s where the .45/70 comes into its own.

Don’t forget you can also bowhunt all of the above in NZ

Look forward to hearing how you get on, good luck Pothunter.

 

[Silverback]

I use a heavy barrelled .243 Sako 75 for long range foxing but my favourite stalking rifle is my Parker Hale .308 - I am considering a variation for a .270 and should then have most of the bases covered I have my interview for St. Huberts on 23rd of this month after a two year wait

 

[pothunter]

Hi Sliverback

Let me know how you get on with the St. Huberts.

Pothunter.

 

[Buckshot]

The concencus seems to be 270 - 308.
I agree, I have a Sako 75 in 308 and love it.

To choose between the two perhaps have a look around the areas where you're planning on going for avaliable ammo and make your choice from there.
I think generally 308 is more readily avaliable as it's the civi version of the military 7.62 round and has been around for a while.

Cheers

mark

 

[ArkAngel]

Yeah another vote for the 308.

I've used one for deer in this country as a mate works on a local estate and i occasionally help out with a cull.

As said it was bought due to the availability of ammo from almost any store, and the excellent stopping power of the round.

 

[Carcajou Garou]

I opt for the .308win, hands down, easier to access in many bullet weight over the counter / worldwide.
Being a shorter rd than the .270 the action would be shorter and stiffer and cycle better.
If you reload or have ideas that you would like to do so then again the .308 offers more varied weights, styles and options to maximize performance. A .308win 150gr bullet travel as fast (within balistic deviation) as a 30/06spfd in the same bullet weight but with less powder = more effecient.
Look into a Savage rifle as they are the sleeper firearms in both accuracy and reliability.
For all the animals listed (and more) you will be well served with a .308win keeping shot placement paramount as with any caliber/rifle combination.

 

[Oakleaf]

Oh cripes a calibre question!

So long as it isnt misplaced optimism, best calibre is what you are -

a. able to shoot well - eg recoil within your comfort zone
b. enough gun for the job
c. ammunition type or components to reload available local to you
d. available in a rifle that you like and get along with/ have confidence in.

Item D is one of the reasons that calibre/ ballistics discussion often gets heated - many people are very pro their particular choice.

The .243 ( 6mm ) is hugely popular in the UK, but a number of estates do not like its use on heavy Red Stags or particularly Sika. European hunters I know would not contemplate choosing that round for boar/ pigs.

I know Philip Holden ( NZ hunter ) wrote a lot about culling and meat hunting with a .243 Sako and also a .222. He's been there and done it, but I personally wouldnt choose either for the purposes you outline. Particularly as I understand your forest Reds run significantly heavier than typical Scottish Hill beasts.

To a great extent, specific calibre is secondary to what you shoot out of it. A .308 launching a 110 grain bullet is a different proposition to the same rifle loaded with 180-200 grain Bear Claws etc.

6.5x55, 7x57 and 7mm-08 all shoot 'above their weight' largely because of some excellent bullets, sectional density and terminal ballistics. But everyone can be the devil to get ammo and components for at times. Particularly if you use factory ammo, the choices are very limited.

.270 is a classic and hard to fault on many points. However, you are limited to two bullet weights - 130grn and 150 grn for the most part. Fine if you get a good load. I would say the 150grn with a good bullet design will do everything you need, with a reserve in the bank.

But .308 and 30-06 tip the edge for what you describe. 308 is 7.62x51 and 30-06 is 7.62x63. Only real difference between the two is that extra cartridge length and the 30-06 ability to launch heavier weights. 308 is the more efficient of the two. I have chronographed both and the real velocity obtained eats away a good deal of the supposed velocity gain the extra capacity of the 30-06 gives - in factory loads.

The real advantage of either is the American factor - these are top selling calibres. You will have a far wider choice of ammo and components in these two calibres than anything else - making ammo selection much easier. The 30 calibre will launch the 150 grn bullet with likely less FELT recoil and pressure than the 270 will. Though my 30 calibre all-round favourite weight is 165grn.

No experience of Mossberg rifles. Their pumps are cheap and cheerful - and good work horses. I see dozens of rifles out on the hill and on DMQ courses each year. For accuracy and realiabilty my choice would run - 1. Tikka/ Sako; 2. Browning A Bolt; 3. Savage.

Good hunting!

 

[KAE1]

Interesting point about recoil 'oakleaf' with the .270 150 grain. I developed a flinch with this round - I know it makes me sound a bit wimpy but it happened. I then tried a friends hand loaded 110 grain and in comparison the recoil was unnoticable. My Parker Hale is very light, great for stalking on foot but a real 'muzzle flipper'. I shot much better with the 110 grain and have used it since.

 

[Oakleaf]

KAE1

Like most things, using a rifle comes down to a combination of elements. Some are more critical than others.

I see a good number of deer stalkers who have a 'suitable' calibre in a perfectly good rifle, but it hurts them too much for them to confidently shoot. Alternatively they have a good rifle and calibre choice, but opt for the wrong bullet for the job in hand - and so it goes on.

Recoil can be a very subjective thing. Good technique helps, but we are imperfect creatures!

I most frequently shoot 6.5x55 and often with a moderator - so recoil is minimal. Alternatively, I have a 30-06, but it is a Browning with Boss fitted. The blast is substantial, but recoil about that of a 243. For me, 30-06 is the upper end of my comfort zone with a free-recoiling rifle. I once sighted in a 7x64 for a client and had no fun at all

Wimp factor is hard to avoid but in truth nothing is more wimpy than missing . Far better ther adequate calibre bullet that hits where you want than the 'super slayer Mk7 ultra terminator Mega Magnum' that creates a very loud noise and misses by 3 feet.

I think this is one of the big factors in the popularity of the .243 - most everyone can shoot it well. Whilst arguable marignal, good shot placement balances the equation. And thats where confidence plays such a big role.

The best field shots tend to be those who never have seen a ballistics chart or read threads so much this - they've just never stopped to worry about it! But then what would the rest of us have to do all day

 

[jamie18thmo]

WOW! Thanks for all that info guys. Lots to take in there, but .308 seems to be getting a lot of votes.
I had a look at a Remington 700 SPS today and liked the feel and weight of it. I was seriously thinking about 7mm .08 as the one to go for, but now you've all got me thinking again! The 7mm .08 seems to be getting more popular here, but there is less choice of ammo on the market it seems, as someone pointed out. About 4 manufacturers I think. Gun shops are everywhere here so getting ammo somewhere shouldn't be too much hassle. You can buy a washing maching, TV, 3 piece suit, Kayak and rifle/ammo all in the same shop (OK, maybe not all at the same time )!
I also looked at a Savage and a Houa (Howa?) but didn't like them as much as the Remington.
I would really like a Sako 85 (love the look and the reputation) but my budget won't get near that unfortunately.
The Mossberg 100 ATR looks like a good rifle for the money and is considerably less than all the others (nearer my budget). Maybe better to not spend too much on a first rifle and see how I get on?
I expect most of the shooting I'll do will be in open country in the hills/mountains (around here anyway) so at longer ranges I guess (Chamois and Tahr territory as well as the deer).
The pigs are a bit like wild boar but seem to be a bit smaller as far as can tell. They are to be found in the hills in open country too I think.
This is all new territory to me (NZ and centrefires/stalking) having only used shotguns and air rifles in the UK, so I'm happy to have all the info you can throw at me.
Thanks again,
Jamie

 

[Carcajou Garou]

Use enough gun for the game hunted, while shot placement is imperative, have enough power for the bullet to efficiently dispatch the prey. Having to needlessly re-shoot an animal because a marginal cartridge/bullet was used or to let it wander off and suffer/expire over time is inexcusable and is one of the main reasons hunting is getting looked down upon. It is up to the hunter to acquire the proper skills to efficiently dispatch and harvest his prey not the prey to submit to the hunter.
Hunting is a personal act between you and your prey, utmost respect is required. :yo:

 

[leon-1]

I most frequently shoot 6.5x55 and often with a moderator - so recoil is minimal.

I am quite a fan of 6.5mm Swedish, it's a good, accurate, hard hitting calibre that can take a bull caribou at 400 yards with a single round. As CG mentioned earlier though there is far more choice with 7.62mm / .308 win.

Wimp factor is hard to avoid but in truth nothing is more wimpy than missing . Far better ther adequate calibre bullet that hits where you want than the 'super slayer Mk7 ultra terminator Mega Magnum' that creates a very loud noise and misses by 3 feet.

I have used from .22 upto 20mm with 14.5mm, 12.75mm, 0.50BMG, .338 Lapua in there. As far as accuracy is concerned you tend to find that they are very good at ranges upto and in excess of 1.4Km, infact far better than the smaller calibers.

The major factor is essentialy the mess that they leave as they do a lot of damage and are essentially very heavy to lug around for any period of time. If you are hunting for food then it destroys a large amount of the meat and also the hide, they are impractical.

Sako 75 or the newer 85 is a good rifle in pretty much any calibre that you are gonna need. If it was me I would probably be looking at the Winchester Model 70 featherweight, but I don't think they make it anymore. The other option is the Remington 700 which has a very good reputation.

As far as caliber is concerned I prefer 6.5mm, but as far as practicality is concerned .308 win is by far an easier round to work about with.

 

[British Red]

Leon - have you seen Riflecraft's Remmy 700 conversion? Called the LSR (Light Stalking Rifle). An absolute tack driver (half MOA or therabouts) - Andrew does lovely work!

Red

 

[leon-1]

Leon - have you seen Riflecraft's Remmy 700 conversion? Called the LSR (Light Stalking Rifle). An absolute tack driver (half MOA or therabouts) - Andrew does lovely work!

Red

To be honest Red I haven't, the last Remington 700 I looked at was in the Sportsman in Paignton, it was the one fitted out with the Accuracy international rigger and furniture, I took a second look as initially I thought it was an AW with just a casual glance.

The receiver and the bolt give it away straight away with anything more than the casual glance. Nice looking though, I used to like the Sako TRG series as well, but alas I no longer have the chance to play with such kit.

 

[British Red]

If you are ever up East Anglia way, well worth a look - blueprinted - custom hand lapped, fluted barrel, pillar bedded, replacement match trigger mmm mmm . He did one that shot 0.2 MOA groups at 100 yards

To be honest its wasted on me when its that good - like feeding a pig a strawberry - lovely to see real work like that though!

Red

 

[leon-1]

Sounds good, I'll have to see if I can check it out sometime, thanks for the heads up