Adi Fiddler said:
Where is BCUK going?
In my own opinion and many other peoples opinions BCUK has really taken a downwards turn.
Posts and entire threads are being removed by over zealous moderators to the point that personal opinions are now being removed. The entire membership, post with the fear that there post will be deleted and at worst they will be banned. It has even got to the stage where people are not able to expresses there own opinions any more. And, when people try to get good honest answers or express there disagreement with a decision made by the moderating team they are banned or the very least threatened.
Adi, this forum is owned by Tony. It isnt now, nor has it ever been a pretence of democracy. Tony and the moderator team work hard to do what Tony wishes with the site. The direction and decisions made about this site, are his and his alone. He does take counsel, but from people of his choosing.
I'm not being agressive, or dismissive, just simply stating the facts. The decisons made here are not democratic one, they never have been and never will be. The decisions are made exclusively and absolutely by the owner.
Moderators dont consult the membership regarding disciplinary actions. We discuss matters with each other, in private. That is how it should be and how it will always be.
It's natural for people to want input and explanation, but it simply isnt possible. The issues surrounding disciplinary stuff are often very private and I doubt anyone wants all the dirty laundy aired in public. It would open debate up to factions, cliques, friends etc and no honest and fair resoultion would EVER be reached. It would be a destructive and damaging process, not just for the individuals concerned, but for many others as well.
Consulting the membership or even offering explanations is often simply out of the question. You have to decide whether youb can understand this and accept it or not. But you must realise it wont ever change.
There are a number of bushcraft forums now and it is noticeable that since I joined BCUK many of the experienced bushcrafters that used to frequent these pages and had a lot to offer have drifted away, thanks to the fact that they have become disillusioned with the whole affair, gently pushed or banned.
Many of them are working to thier own agendas, commercial interests and power plays Adi. In some cases, their interests have conflicted with BcUKI's neutral position and have either been asked or told to cease and desist. In some cases, they have been unable to accept BcUK's commercial neutrality and have left, in other cases, they have been banned. It's sad, but BcUK isnt going to compromise it's values to accomodate 3rd part power plays and commercial interests. It's thier choice, they can either use BcUK under BcUK's terms and conditions, or leave. What they cant do is write thier own terms and conditions.
The abject lack of any significant success of any of these "other" forums, should tell you that the agendas under which some of them have been created, is plainly clear to many people. If the content of these other forums and websites, was as good, as honest and agenda free as BcUK's then these forums would be as successfull or moreso than BcUK. As it stands, many of them rely heavily on mining BcUK for members, rather than generating thier own on thier own merits.
Tony I address this to you and I apologise that I am doing this in public but I think it only fear that you and the members paying or not have an open and honest discussion with how the forum should be run.
The members opinions are considered by Tony, but there will never be open consultation. This forum is owned outright by Tony. Members do not buy shares, they make voluntary contributions for a number of reasons, some because they are simply gratefull for the work and appreciate the costs involved and want to help out. Others contribute to gain higher level access to forum facilities.
But in no case, can a member buy the right to have a say in how the forum is run. it's not promised or implied.
I, like many others are full members after paying a subscription. Many of use have voiced our concerns with how the forum is run but you have not had the decency to address any of these questions instead we continue to be palmed off by often aggressive replies from moderators and some of the moderator chose to use the PM facility to make there aggressive threats which I am sure there are many members that can verify that fact.
Tony is not obligated to address any of your concerns. Your concerns are heard, but frankly you presume too much. By what right do you think you should have a say in the management of BcUK? Were you ever promised such input? Was it ever offered or even implied?
Tony you want people to give money and subscribe to BCUK to help you in the running costs, which people are willing to do but they are soon turned off if they do not perceive the service they expect
Service? You are not buying a service, this isnt a transport cafe. Contribute financially if you want, if you think what you get here is worth contributing, then do it. But if you dont think it's good value, then dont contribute. It's your choice. Remember though, you are NOT BUYING A SERVICE! You are not buying anything.
...and most people want a forum that is friendly, helpful and informative but as soon as you have people with big sticks beating members down (and that is how some of the moderators come across) things need to change, at the end of the day the only person that losses out is you because the members will stop logging on and stop subscribing.
Then that's what will happen. The rules are there and if the members break them, they will be moderated and whining about it wont help anyone or anything.
I expect this thread to be deleted very quickly and I expect I will be banned with in a very short time. Which is a great shame as I am only publicly expressing the views of many people on the forum. It would be great to see this thread run with lots of constructive input from yourself and the members in a grown up manor. And, possibly we can make BCUK a places were people want to be again.
You have voiced your concerns and I doubt you will be banned for it, but you will be put straight. Yopu need to realise this forum is Tony's and Tony's alone. You dont buy right here, you contribute if you like what you get and many, many people do. If you are one of theose people who is unable to accept the authority of moderators, then you will alweays clash with them. But they are not going to make allowances for you sensitivity. The rules are there and they are going to continue to be enforced by moderators. You need to find a way to live with that.
