Vegetarians and vegans

[falling rain]

Just out of interest......... What's with all the vegetarians and vegans there seems to be nowadays? I work in a hospital helpdesk dealing with portering, domestic and catering enquiries and you wouldn't beleive the amount of people that are vegetarian or vegan or don't like this, that or the other. Is it because it's trendy to be a vegetarian or religious beliefs or because they love animals, and won't eat meat because of it? I just don't understand the huge increase in this in the last 10 years or so. I never knew anybody who was a vegetarian back then, now there seems to be lots about.............. What's the John Dory? God gave us incisors and canines after all for tearing meat, although of course humans are omnivors

 

[Toddy]

Dunno and I am vegetarian, pretty close to vegan, and have been most of my life.
I can deal with meat, skinning, gutting, etc., but put it near my mouth and I want to vomit. It's *dead*. I won't use the same pots or utensils for cooking or storing it as I do *food* and I happily go hungry rather than eat something dodgy. Not a particularly good survival trait I know, but there you go.

I'm finding it harder to eat dairy products now too, eggs are a no, as are many cheeses; butter and honey I still manage. Fish is just gross.

Why? No idea. My sons are vegetarian too, one is as fussy as I am, even down to his soap being not from animal tallowate; the other will eat sweets with gelatine in them....just. They reckoned very early on that they didn't *need* to eat meat to live healthily so they wouldn't. To be honest I didn't think their determination would last, but twenty years later they haven't changed their minds or habits about meat.

Frankly factory farming is cruel, I'm not surprised that more and more people are becoming veggie, besides, it very good food
There's a book called "Diet for a Small Planet" that gives very good reasons why the production of meat is environmentally unsound quite apart from the humane reasons.

There is another point; it's never been easier to be vegetarian or vegan; we have an incredibly rich assortment of foodstuffs to choose from, the only things we don't eat are beef, pork, mutton, game, poultry and fish. Everything else is good stuff
Vegans find it repulsive (physically or morally) to eat dairy products, eggs and honey, because it exploits other creatures too.

Restaurants are the dregs for eating in; very few chefs care enough to be really clean about food to vegetarian standards. If it were an allergic contamination problem they'd be a whole lot better at keeping utensils, etc., seperate.

Probably going to get flamed now, but it is how vegetarians see things.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Abbe Osram]

I believe its a thing which is pushed through the TV and the inner city life.
I am happy that I love to eat vegetarian food, done well it is very very good. Was myself a vegetarian when I lived in London many years ago.

The strange thing with meet is that it stinks terrible for a veg. I remember visiting my grandfather, he was fiddling with porkchops and was expecting me to eat it. I didnt want to make him sad so I was eating it. First it was revolting but after a while it tasted great again and now I love the smell and taste of porkchops.

I dont think that there is good or bad taste. We are only not used to some of the stuff. I could not eat a rat, the thought is revolting but I am sure when I am real hungry I will like it. I didnt like reindeer in the beginning but now I like it. I always loved moose meat, Ripa has a very strong taste to get used too.

My interest is not not to eat meat but to learn to eat everything even the wirred things which a bushcrafter or surivalist comes around.

cheers
Abbe

 

[andyn]

I certainly hear where your coming from Nick, there does seem to be an ever increasing number of people turning that way.

Have to admit though, the number of interesting veg that is now available on the shelves are increasing as we ship stuff in from more exotic places and the like.

Also perhaps its something to do with the general quality of meat that is widely available to us. I'd love to buy fresh, good quality meat direct from farms (and veg mind you), but my bank balanace doesn't stretch that far. So I get stuck with the crud that Tesco and Sainsbury stock.

Probably best we dont start discussing that route as i think that 99% of the food stocked by supermarkets are crud and that includes the above mentioned interesting food that is being imported into this country. The term and the article from the bushcraft magazine "food miles" springs to mind.

 

[Porcupine]

Factory meat is a big reason i think,and truth to be told the more i know the less clean it tastes.

Regarding my personal point of view i more tend to follow Hugh Fearnley Whittingstals thinking,so give them a worthy life and a non cruel death.

Food for thought,how many vegetarians would we have if you had to kill your own food and butcher it? (on this forum numbers might be a bit askew )

 

[torjusg]

I don't respect vegetarism at all. Humans are omnivores and it would be practically impossible for humans to survive on plants alone in a non-fossile fueled world. Especially on these latitudes.

Vegetarism is the usual post-modern crazyness we see all around and the only reason why it is so popular today is because most people are completely detached from the realities of life. There are no rights in nature (which we are very much a part of by the way), it is pretty much everyone for himself. Eat and/or be eaten.
:AR15firin

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Abbe Osram]

I don't respect vegetarism at all. Humans are omnivores and it would be practically impossible for humans to survive on plants alone in a non-fossile fueled world. Especially on these latitudes.

Vegetarism is the usual post-modern crazyness we see all around and the only reason why it is so popular today is because most people are completely detached from the realities of life. There are no rights in nature (which we are very much a part of by the way), it is pretty much everyone for himself. Eat and/or be eaten.
:AR15firin

Torjus Gaaren

it would nice if it is so easy but for me it had to do with the fact of mass production and money making of the industry. There is nothing natural on the way these animals are living and dying. Raised in sweden moved with the overfull loaded truck to spain, slaughtered there and moved back to sweden.
Thats sick, I rather hunt and kill and eat.

If a person is living in a city and eating meat he is in my books a hypocrit. Letting an animal suffer and another human doing the dirty work for him only that he find a nicely clean packet piece of meat. I rather be a vegetarian.
Up here where we live its ok, I fish, I hunt and kill. In London I would be a vegetarian again.

cheers
Abbe

 

[scoops_uk]

I don't respect vegetarism at all. Humans are omnivores and it would be practically impossible for humans to survive on plants alone in a non-fossile fueled world. Especially on these latitudes.

Vegetarism is the usual post-modern crazyness we see all around and the only reason why it is so popular today is because most people are completely detached from the realities of life. There are no rights in nature (which we are very much a part of by the way), it is pretty much everyone for himself. Eat and/or be eaten.
:AR15firin

Torjus Gaaren

So factory farming animals in cages is OK so we can have 99p chickens in the supermarket?

Surely as bushcrafters we understand that we have a responsibility to 'use' nature's resources responsibly and not just destroy the planet because we're the strongest?

Scoops

 

[redcollective]

If a person is living in a city and eating meat he is in my books a hypocrit. Letting an animal suffer and another human doing the dirty work for him only that he find a nicely clean packet piece of meat. I rather be a vegetarian.
Up here where we live its ok, I fish, I hunt and kill. In London I would be a vegetarian again.

Interesting Abbe: I was brought up in a rural area where the beef industry ruled - so at school we attended a trip to an abbatoir - stun guns, gutting, bone saws - the whole deal - there was no doubt then where our sausages came from!. I now only eat meat two or three times a month. I pay through the nose for stuff that can be traced to the farm (so they say), is organic and where applicable, free range. I feel better about that (perhaps I'm kidding myself). I can't even look at a packet of cheap meat these days without wondering "where the hell did that come from and what did the poor beast endure to produce it".

 

[torjusg]

So factory farming animals in cages is OK so we can have 99p chickens in the supermarket?

Surely as bushcrafters we understand that we have a responsibility to 'use' nature's resources responsibly and not just destroy the planet because we're the strongest?

Scoops

Well, I agree. I guess it was the bunnyhuggers my attack was meant for!

Torjus Gaaren

 

[JohnC]

I've been a vegetarian for years, started it when I was stopping smoking. Got a lot more aware of the way some animals are raisedfor food, so if I went back to eating meat (which I'd never rule out) I'd try for decently produced stuff.
What I do have an issue is, is with people who "hate" veggies. I've been to 2 meals where I've been asked if I was a vegetarian, said yes, then found that the cook minced a rasher of bacon into the meal, "because I don't like veggies". (Quite tasty both times btw)My wife and kids eat meat. I'd never impose my decision to not eat meat on them, and I don't hold it against anyone who does eat meat.
I do agree with the detachment from the reality of meat production. The first time my son realised meat came from animals was at a market where a whole pig was being roasted. It hasn't put him off, but he'd never really beleived us before then.

 

[falling rain]

Dunno and I am vegetarian, pretty close to vegan, and have been most of my life.
I can deal with meat, skinning, gutting, etc., but put it near my mouth and I want to vomit. It's *dead*. I won't use the same pots or utensils for cooking or storing it as I do *food* and I happily go hungry rather than eat something dodgy. Not a particularly good survival trait I know, but there you go.

I'm finding it harder to eat dairy products now too, eggs are a no, as are many cheeses; butter and honey I still manage. Fish is just gross.

Why? No idea. My sons are vegetarian too, one is as fussy as I am, even down to his soap being not from animal tallowate; the other will eat sweets with gelatine in them....just. They reckoned very early on that they didn't *need* to eat meat to live healthily so they wouldn't. To be honest I didn't think their determination would last, but twenty years later they haven't changed their minds or habits about meat.

Frankly factory farming is cruel, I'm not surprised that more and more people are becoming veggie, besides, it very good food
There's a book called "Diet for a Small Planet" that gives very good reasons why the production of meat is environmentally unsound quite apart from the humane reasons.

There is another point; it's never been easier to be vegetarian or vegan; we have an incredibly rich assortment of foodstuffs to choose from, the only things we don't eat are beef, pork, mutton, game, poultry and fish. Everything else is good stuff
Vegans find it repulsive (physically or morally) to eat dairy products, eggs and honey, because it exploits other creatures too.

Restaurants are the dregs for eating in; very few chefs care enough to be really clean about food to vegetarian standards. If it were an allergic contamination problem they'd be a whole lot better at keeping utensils, etc., seperate.

Probably going to get flamed now, but it is how vegetarians see things.

Cheers,
Toddy

Strewth Toddy, you are fussy arn't you? If you ever come to my house for dinner you can bring your own food. And cook it yourself And you can't stand Fish!!!! I'd die if I couldn't eat fish ever again. I love it. There's a lot of fusiness and allergies about nowadays too as well as the vegetarianism. I get calls all the time from nurses with patients who don't like this, can't eat that, need gluton free meals or dairy free meals etc. I understand if someone is ill, and has to have a gluten free diet etc but an awful ot of people are just plain fussy. I've seen it with kids too when teaching at ATC or some of the events I've done. It maybe how kids are brought up too? My son eats everything I know of except tomatoes which he hates, That's honestly the only thing I can think of that he dislikes and always has. I have only 2 things I dislike, Liver and brussel sprouts (which I can eat at a push)

 

[scoops_uk]

Well, I agree. I guess it was the bunnyhuggers my attack was meant for!

Torjus Gaaren

Hi Torjus,

Most vegetarians I know, including those posting here, seem to be vegetarian basically because they disagree with intensive farming methods. Not sure whether they count as bunnyhuggers? I don't know anyone who is vegetarian just on the basis they like fluffy animals and wouldn't want to hurt one.

You might find the following useful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_vegetarianism

I'm not wanting an argument with anyone I know someone round here has the old "walk a mile in a man's shoes" as his signature. That's very good advice. Always best to understand an issue. I'm not vegetarian by the way.

Scoops

 

[baggins]

My partner, Abs, is a strict veggie but i, on the other hand, am a complete omnivore. But, seeing as i do all the cooking, i always cook veggie. It's no probs and as i like cooking, it is actually a challenge. After all, how difficult is it to stick a couple of chops under the grill but give most people a handfull of vegetables and they are just boiled grey. it does take more thought and prep to cook veggie. I do still enjoy a good steak and the fact that it i get it rarely means i enjoy it all the more.
All i can say to those who don't agree or understand why; have a week off meat and experiment, it's fun, and the meat will taste better afterwards.

 

[Toddy]

If I eat fish and don't have anti histamines too I'm violently ill My heart starts fluttering like I've got a bird trapped in my chest and my skin breaks out in hives, so, sorry, but yup, fish is gross

I'm easy to feed, just not dead stuff please

It was the only thing I insisted on with the children, if someone made them food that they chose not to eat, then it would be incredibly rude to make that person feel they hadn't provided for them. Simply say no thank you and do without, without fuss.

Ye gods Torjus but you are dogmatic aren't you? It's a big wide world out there, people can exist in the most inhospitable of places and on the simplest of diets. Mine is incredibly varied and rich, I'm not claiming any moral high ground, and I'm tolerant of it all except that which I personally will or will not eat. I do think though that meat bought cheaply means something suffered for it.

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[torjusg]

I ask for tolerance of my intolerance.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Cap'n Badger]

Wow....some strong views here
I've been a 'vegie' fer nigh on 37 years......I was told by my mother, all those many moons ago that I was allergic t' the fibers in the meat.
Now this could just be just me mom, (being the hippy type she was in the 60's) stamping her 'save the planet' views on a young boy who didn't know any better, or she had some true 'medical' evidence that backed her up.....Who knows?.....I was 2 at the time........
Never ate 'meat' all thro me younger years.....just vegies....oh...an' TVP (Anyone who has tried this truely dyer s**t, knows ye has t' marinade it it veg knox cube liquid fer 24 days t' get any taste t' it!!)..(TVP=Textured Vegetable Protien)......finally when I left home at 15........tried beef burgers fer the first time......Bad result.....so set about finding out what I 'Could' eat......After much experimentation wi' diff foods found that Fish is ok (tuna...shark....sardines etc)......Chicken/beef/pork/lamb etc...bad.
Now.....with the wonder food 'QUORN' on the market....being a 'vegie' ain't that bad......in fact,....more an' more 'meat looking' veg products are springing up everywhere ye looks!!....here's a funny thing fer ye...only found out 'bout 6 month ago, that 'pot noodle'...is completly veg!!.....not that it tastes any good......just not tried one b4......
In a nutshell....... I've never worried that I don't eat meat.....all me life has been a meat free experience....some make the choice, some don't have the choice.
Some should remember that b4 they shouts..''I hates vegies''...
.

 

[Toddy]

I ask for tolerance of my intolerance.

Torjus Gaaren

Courtesy is generally reciprocated

Toddy

 

[Toddy]

just vegies....oh...an' TVP (Anyone who has tried this truely dyer s**t, knows ye has t' marinade it it veg knox cube liquid fer 24 days t' get any taste t' it!!)..(TVP=Textured Vegetable Protien).....

Uhuh, TVP really stands for terrible or tortured vegetable protein It can be pretty vile

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[Cap'n Badger]

...yea man......wot Toddy says