Update- Carrying of knives

[durulz]

I take it you never leave Kent then ???GS

Erm, yes and no. I do all my 'bushcrafting' in Kent, yes. And since I never carry a knife otherwise I have never had cause to be careful when out of the county (or even, get this, out of the country!) - why, only two days ago I crossed the border into Injun Territory (that'll be Sussex). I'm very cosmopolitan. Which reminds me - I used to work in London; and in all that time I was never pulled over by the police either.
And even when out of Kent I have never been pulled over by the police. Is that OK?
You seem to be under a misapprehension. I didn't say people NEVER get pulled over. I merely said it doesn't happen very often and isn't the kind of thing one should waste too much of their life worrying about.

 

[grimstead]

hi everyone

its very sad to hear how we are loseing how freedom but i do know that if you want to carry a knife in the car (a tool) keep it in the boot in a locked toolbox with padlock )
because i keep my work tool in the boot all the time hope this help people out a bit

thanks

 

[widu13]

Sorry to cause it guys- I was only trying to help out by putting you in the picture! It's info, take or leave it. Have a discussion but don't argue over it!!

 

[Barney]

I think it very very easy to get over enthused about this whole situation The people who are empowered by the electoral system that we have in place are trying to save the pointless waste of lives of young people who fall victim to knife crime, generally men between the ages of 12 and 25. I for one support any initiative that will safeguard the many sensible young people from the mindless minority.

On a personal note I think its high time that the yobs who have been treated "oh so politically correctly" their whole life will not now be able to carry the offensive weapons thinking that they will "only receive a caution"

It would do some of these morons a whole lot of good to think that they would be charged every time they were caught with a knife and even more of them a lot of good to think that they would be stopped and searched every time they went through the front door.

I know that its an inconvenience to many law abiding people but if it saves one life then I don't mind politely answering a couple of questions about why I am carrying a knife and what I am going to use it for in the unlikely instance of a fat four eyed forty four year old being stopped and searched without reason.

Thank goodness that handguns were given the same attention earlier, god knows what it would be like if the little buggers could get their hands on those as easily as once was the case.

On a more general note Society as a whole is to blame, until we decide that violent films with graphic blood curdling scenes and violent crime ridden computer games are unacceptable then we are going to have to put up with this type of reaction to problems that exposure to this type material, generally, will encourage amongst young impressionable males.

 

[nickg]

Thank goodness that handguns were given the same attention earlier, god knows what it would be like if the little buggers could get their hands on those as easily as once was the case.

Ignoring the rest of your post I would urge you to do at least basic research before posting - it was NEVER easy to legally aquire a lirearms license. In fact its a good deal easier and cheaper to get illegal guns now than it ever was.

Read the previous posts - the question is not about answering a few polite questions

 

[sandsnakes]

If we are going to ban violent literature etc, Bible goes, Shakespear goes etc, etc. Society is to blame by becoming so politically correct that it would rather produce a blanket ban than mark individuals behaviour as wrong. School teachers cannot punish neither can they hold and console a child in pain. People assume they have 'rights'. No one ever asks if the abused or dead victim has 'rights'.

Knives do not kill or harm, people kill and harm peole. Often its people who live in fear who carry knives. Fear is abundant in a society where the course and vulgar mob rule, this is not a cry for the right wing or 'victorian values'.

By our example and instruction we activley demonstrate the correct use and understanding of knives, what they are, why they are used and the danger of 'wrong use'. I use the term wrong, not innappropriate because some uses are WRONG. We should fight knife restriction so that we are able to educate by example that knife use is a mundane thing and that only the stupid and the wrong carry a knife for any other reason than it being a tool.

Considered rant over. BTW I have a house full of Japanese swords with curved blades, according to the percived wisdom (Tabloid readers et al) I should have decimated (killed one in ten) a couple bus loads of pensioners by now.

Sandsnakes

 

[freespin]

Well put Barney. F

 

[Barney]

I think it is fair to assume that there are far less handguns in circulation now than there was before legislation was introduced to control the supply of them after monstrous atrocities took place.

I have re-read my comment and cannot see how it can be interpreted that I was referring to the ease of obtaining a licence.

I stand to be corrected that the supply of illegal weapons may be greater now than ever, but this only goes to show that the measures introduced to combat gun crime had an effect didn't they?

 

[Draven]

I think it very very easy to get over enthused about this whole situation The people who are empowered by the electoral system that we have in place are trying to save the pointless waste of lives of young people who fall victim to knife crime, generally men between the ages of 12 and 25.

Laws are, of course, there to protect the innocent citizens, but that could equally be done by locking everyone away. If the law written give little to no care for how much they restrict the rights of innocent people, it starts to cross the line between democracy to police state. No, I'm not saying the UK is a police state, but ever more restrictive laws and regulations are being passed strictly to make it seem as though they're really trying to deal with the problem, which they're not. It's a time saver and a vote-winner. It ups statistics in their favour - ie, it shows that they're making more arrests, whether or not they've actually prevented any more real crimes. It's not a solution. It's not almost a solution. It's a brick in that building in which everyone gets locked up to protect us from ourselves.

On a personal note I think its high time that the yobs who have been treated "oh so politically correctly" their whole life will not now be able to carry the offensive weapons thinking that they will "only receive a caution"

I agree 100%, but it's not just "yobs" that these laws restrict, is it?

It would do some of these morons a whole lot of good to think that would be charged every time they were caught with a knife and even more of them a lot of good to think that they would be stopped and searched every time they went through the front door.

Your last mention brings the words "police state" right back to the tip of my tongue. You sound as though you're counting on police officers being able to instantly spot the difference between someone who's going to stab someone and someone who's going to open boxes at work.

I know that its an inconvenience to many law abiding people but if it saves one life then I don't mind politely answering a couple of questions about why I am carrying a knife and what I am going to use it for in the unlikely instance of a fat four eyed forty four year old being stopped and searched without reason.

Again, I agree, if I were stopped and searched I would have no problem whatsoever explaining the situation. Though I am a bit more likely to be stopped than yourself, being nineteen years old and biker jacket-wearing with a lip piercing. Hasn't ever happened though! And if it did? Would the copper trust this nineteen year old pierced biker jacket wearing guy carrying four knives and an axe onto public transport? I doubt polite questioning would be all I had to worry about.

Thank goodness that handguns were given the same attention earlier, god knows what it would be like if the little buggers could get their hands on those as easily as once was the case.

As has already been mentioned, they're not hard to get your hands on, but they are now impossible for the government to track and regulate. Mission accomplished?

On a more general note Society as a whole is to blame, until we decide that violent films with graphic blood curdling scenes and violent crime ridden computer games are unacceptable then we are going to have to put up with this type of reaction to problems that exposure to this type material, generally, will encourage amongst young impressionable males.

I agree to an extent. There are plenty of gory movies and games I love. The difference? I'm a responsible adult, not an impressionable child. I'd be pretty p***ed off if they decided that I, as an adult, am no longer allowed to watch The Patriot because it shows Mel Gibson hacking people up with a tomahawk. There are a whole host of problems with society, all of which need to be addressed. "Ban knives" is a horrible idea, and the same goes for "Ban gory movies", in my opinion. They're just scapegoats to prevent them having to look at real problems.

No offence is meant by any of that, just calling it as i see it. Apologies for rant-like-thing.

Pete

 

[Draven]

I think it is fair to assume that there are far less handguns in circulation now than there was before legislation was introduced to control the supply of them after monstrous atrocities took place.

There probably are less handguns in circulation now - and now they're all in the hands of criminals. How is that a good result?

I stand to be corrected that the supply of illegal weapons may be greater now than ever, but this only goes to show that the measures introduced to combat gun crime had an effect didn't they?

And again, how on earth is that a good result? It sounds like you're saying that a result is better than no result at all, even if the result is that the gun becomes a fashion symbol.

 

[wanderingblade]

The people who are empowered by the electoral system that we have in place are trying to save the pointless waste of lives of young people who fall victim to knife crime...

Look up 'Knife crime - A review of Evidence and Policy Published by the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies (google it - it's a freely available PDF doc.)

It is one of the very few evidence based academic (non-politically motivated) investigations into the problem of violence and the mis-use of knives (anyone who buys into the silly media tag 'knife crime' is just being lazy)

I think it will enlighten you immensely and should be considered essential reading for anyone interested in this subject.

 

[BigShot]

Barney...
...there might (I don't know the numbers for that) be fewer legal handguns in circulation now, but since that legislation was brought in (I assume you're referring to the complete ban on handguns) violent crime involving handguns has skyrocketed.
At very best the ban has been ineffective, at worst it has not only failed but made things worse. Whichever the case may be, the ban most certainly hasn't made this country safer.


As for the monstrous atorcities...
...how many of them would have taken place if the police had bothered to do their job properly?
Was the problem the presence of legally owned handguns in the hands of a group of people very much disinclined to criminal activity?
Or was the problem the inaction of the police when presented with concerns about particular gun owners?
Concerns that if followed up properly would have led to those individuals being stripped of their licence and their guns taken from them before they had a chance to commit those atrocities?


Guns weren't the problem then, just like guns and knives aren't the problem now.
The problem is criminals. Criminals who ignore the law already and aren't about to start following it.
If someone leaves the house with a knife and goes on to commit a crime with it... they have already broken about 4 or 5 laws all of which carry a custodial penatly. What makes you, or anyone else, think that enacting new laws (or tightening current ones) will do anything other than marginalise, criminalise or alienate law abiding citizens - while making not a jot of difference to those who already ignore laws with anything from years to decades of punishment attached to them?

The gun ban has completely and utterly failed to reduce the rates of violent crime involving handguns (and may even have increased them).

When will you, and people like you, stop with this "if it saves just one life" bleating? We can already see that it hasn't and can reasonably conclude that it won't.

When can we move on from the current dead-end approach of vote-winning gestures and get on with the real job of finding out exactly why these problems exist and getting on with stopping them by enforcement and discipline, education and (probably most importantly) empowerment of victims and the law abiding?

 

[BorderReiver]

I think it is fair to assume that there are far less handguns in circulation now than there was before legislation was introduced to control the supply of them after monstrous atrocities took place.
I have re-read my comment and cannot see how it can be interpreted that I was referring to the ease of obtaining a licence.

I stand to be corrected that the supply of illegal weapons may be greater now than ever, but this only goes to show that the measures introduced to combat gun crime had an effect didn't they?

Are you joking? There are more handguns in circulation now than before the ban. A large increase in automatic hand guns too; these were never legal.

Your last paragraph shows the pointlessness of the anti legal handgun legislation. Criminals, by definition, don't bother about laws.

 

[BigShot]

Are you joking? There are more handguns in circulation now than before the ban. A large increase in automatic hand guns too; these were never legal.

Your last paragraph shows the pointlessness of the anti legal handgun legislation. Criminals, by definition, don't bother about laws.

And by extension, I think, the anti knife sentiment and legislation too.

 

[Barney]

Barney...

When will you, and people like you, stop with this "if it saves just one life" bleating? We can already see that it hasn't and can reasonably conclude that it won't.

When can we move on from the current dead-end approach of vote-winning gestures and get on with the real job of finding out exactly why these problems exist and getting on with stopping them by enforcement and discipline, education and (probably most importantly) empowerment of victims and the law abiding?

I will ignore many of your observations and instead concentrate that "people like me" whatever that may be, should start acting more like you and more thoroughly engage our nostradamus type skills and then fully accept them as fact based on what we are thinking at the present time. I can assure you without fear of rebuke that , you cant see how these measures have not worked as they have not been in force long enough for anyone to form an evidence based opinion although I accept that you think you are always right and that the measures about to be introduced wont work.

Some people are just like that.

 

[gunslinger]

Don't be obtuse - yes you do. Would you walk down your local high street with an axe on one hip and machete on the other? If you really don't think that's inappropriate, or even just unsure, then may I have first dibs on your collection?

Yes I agree, but that's an extreme scenario, I dont think that was quite the point you were trying to make. Was it??

You preface that with don't act suspiciously ,but one policemans view of suspicious can be vastly different to another. So other than the behaviour above which is the action of an obvious lunatic, how would you define suspicious,particularly as you have already posted telling us about dressing suspiciously????

If you read my original post you will see that I have been pulled over twice in a short time and I live in rural Devon not the Metropolis.
I do not dress oddly or have a ring through my nose,not that it should matter.

From my personal experience I was less likely to be pulled over in London where I lived for 24 years,including a year on North Peckham Estate where everyone carried knives and none of them were bushcrafters.
IMHO the police were too busy keeping on top of all the scrotes on their databases to bother looking for more.

The only dealing I ever had with Kent police was when we were pulled over on the way to Stone Lodge ranges before the handgun ban, and held at gunpoint. But thats another story.
GS
GS

 

[neil draycott]

are there any serving police officers out there who can offer some advice to us all about this i would imagine that as long as you let an officer know if you are stopped that you have a cutting implement on you and where it is giving him no need to feel threatened he would use the discretion offered to the police and deal with you as such

 

[gunslinger]

Barney...
...there might (I don't know the numbers for that) be fewer legal handguns in circulation now, but since that legislation was brought in (I assume you're referring to the complete ban on handguns) violent crime involving handguns has skyrocketed.
At very best the ban has been ineffective, at worst it has not only failed but made things worse. Whichever the case may be, the ban most certainly hasn't made this country safer.


As for the monstrous atorcities...
...how many of them would have taken place if the police had bothered to do their job properly?
Was the problem the presence of legally owned handguns in the hands of a group of people very much disinclined to criminal activity?
Or was the problem the inaction of the police when presented with concerns about particular gun owners?
Concerns that if followed up properly would have led to those individuals being stripped of their licence and their guns taken from them before they had a chance to commit those atrocities?


Guns weren't the problem then, just like guns and knives aren't the problem now.
The problem is criminals. Criminals who ignore the law already and aren't about to start following it.
If someone leaves the house with a knife and goes on to commit a crime with it... they have already broken about 4 or 5 laws all of which carry a custodial penatly. What makes you, or anyone else, think that enacting new laws (or tightening current ones) will do anything other than marginalise, criminalise or alienate law abiding citizens - while making not a jot of difference to those who already ignore laws with anything from years to decades of punishment attached to them?

The gun ban has completely and utterly failed to reduce the rates of violent crime involving handguns (and may even have increased them).

When will you, and people like you, stop with this "if it saves just one life" bleating? We can already see that it hasn't and can reasonably conclude that it won't.

When can we move on from the current dead-end approach of vote-winning gestures and get on with the real job of finding out exactly why these problems exist and getting on with stopping them by enforcement and discipline, education and (probably most importantly) empowerment of victims and the law abiding?

Excellent post.
Sort the cause not the tools. Boy scouts had knives when I was a kid,and did they go around stabbing each other. No.
The problem is IMO lack of parenting,discipline and self respect.
GS

 

[neil draycott]

i totally agree with big shot and gunslinger i would hate to think i had just turned myself into a criminal for trying to enjoy my days off by doing something that in reality is causing noone any concern just because i had a knife in my possession which i might add i had no intention of using on another human being

 

[Melonfish]

i totally agree with big shot and gunslinger i would hate to think i had just turned myself into a criminal for trying to enjoy my days off by doing something that in reality is causing noone any concern just because i had a knife in my possession which i might add i had no intention of using on another human being

sad fact is the gov't love to criminalise everyone that way they are easier to deal with.
blanket bans are one way of this, for instance when the violent crime reduction act came into effect it became as part of this act illegal to sell, manufacture or import a RIF (replica imitation firearm) there is a defence written into the bill and its legislated by a volunteer group and well looked after we're protecting our hobby. so far this bill has only in fact nusanced the airsofters and the paintballers, pound shops still sell replica imitation firearms to kids and fairs still give them away as prizes...

i shall relate a story here, two on duty firearms officers walk into pheonix airsofts shop, there's lots of loverly gun shaped objects on the walls and they pick out from in a locked glass cabinet a lovely glock 18, they wanted to by their super who was retiring a prezzie see?
well they got flat refused, two armed police officers, real MP5 sub machine guns strapped to em plus sidearms showing full legal licenses for owning such and they couldn't buy them? why because the gov't said so, yes thats right they can buy REAL guns but it would be illegal for the shop to sell the fake ones to them because they're not registered airsofters with at least 3 games in over 2 months in hand!

this equals the stupididy of some of the laws we're seeing today, they're not thought out they're kneejerk and it saddens me so.
pete

ps if anyone wants the original tale verbatim i'll dig out the post from the owner as proof.