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Update- Carrying of knives

Discussion in 'Bushcraft Chatter' started by widu13, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. sirex

    sirex New Member

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    i dont want to come over as unsympathetic, but why would going to the police station lead to an argument there ?

    as i say, i know it sounds like i'm being a ****, but maybe you just need to come at the problem with a different attitude. - You wont get an inch from the coppers i suspect, but with a clear head and a smile, you'd likely have been in a better position to fight this in court (with free representation) than if you give up, get upset about it, sign over your goods as something they wern't (weapons) and now find that next time the police stop you with a knife (and they will, knowing how police quotas work) you'll goto a cell.

    keep your chin up mate. just learn from your mistakes i guess. kicking off in a police station, or getting 100 mates to goto the womans land and cause a problem is why you get labeled by police as a trouble maker. You've got the label now and there's no shaking it i suspect, but you don't have to give them the satisfaction of letting them push you around. Id imagine a police officer would find it hard to be an asshole if you refuse to get annoyed with them.
     
  2. wistuart

    wistuart Member

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    Under the circumstances there is no way the police would have allowed him to travel in their car whist still in possession of the tools (weapons in their eyes). I doubt very much they would risk that with someone who wasn't known to them so there's no way that was ever an option for Hobbit. Likewise having asked him to relinquish the items they were not about to let him travel to the station independently whilst still having the items on his person.

    I belief the only practical option in this situation is to agree to their request to hand over the items but insist on ammending the receipt to state that you are not giving up ownership but are placing your goods in their custody at their request. If they're decent cops and you deal with them politely one would hope that should be sufficient for them.

    I find the fact that an official form is worded in such a manner highly suspicious and I don't believe it to be an unintentional use of the wrong words. I think they've anticipated the possibility that they may on occasion seek to remove knives etc from people who do have legitimate reason for carrying them and this con of getting the individual to sign away ownership makes it very hard for said individual to have any recourse.

    Edited to add: They've got a nerve calling this document a receipt anyway if that is what they refered to it as. A receipt should be proof provided by them that they have taken your property, not a docket signed by you stating that you're giving up title to it.

    Of course they would never admit they called it a receipt and would point out that it clearly says "DISCLAIMER CERTIFICATE" on the form. Lesson here, boys and girls, is watch what you sign and don't allow people to fob you off that it's something it clearly isn't.


    My blood is slowly simmering.
     
  3. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Guys if i had been more with it, i guess i would have looked more closely at the "Certificate"
    But thats us Hobbits not very bright,
    I was cuffed, and my sac put into thier cars boot, and i was put onto the back seat.

    There was no point in me kicking off, as it is my home village, and they know me there.

    But after reading the Law, and what i am allowed to have upon my person and the ability to prove that i have a legitimate right to have on me these tools, i am going to go down that route every time.

    I will not let them intimidate me, nor will i sign anything until i give it a good bloody read first, and if needed, i will ask for a lawyer to be present. I was roughing it in thier eyes on private land, well tough dodo, i am allowed to, and i will continue to do so,
    And i take SIREX comments, no point in having 100 bushcrafters camping on her estate, as that will just lead to us all being blackballed, rather to lose one than to lose many!!!!!

    The Hobbit
     
  4. william#

    william# Settler

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    well tbh this new rule cant be a suprise to anyone think most people knew it was comming.


    i imagine its not under comon law but a statute which you have to consent to for it to apply to you lol

    a policeman can under common law may use dissrection.

    the question you have to ask yourself i think is do you trust that the police if they found you in possesion of a knife which you carried with the intention for using as a tool for bushcraft.would they make the distinction between you and the stated reason for the inactment of this new rule (ie to prevent knife crime).

    does this new rule enable the police to make this distinction?
     
  5. sirex

    sirex New Member

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    all joking aside, ditching the DPM might help. - where i live we get quite alot of poaching and dpm does seem to be the flavour of the month.

    still yet to see a poacher without a firearm mind....
     
  6. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Hi Sirex,
    yeah i had already decided to ditch the DPM, most of it, not going to wear the Trousers, but still going to wear my jacket, as it has all my little bits of kit in it, and i am going to change rucksacks as well, just means i have to look at changing some of my kit,

    As my sleepbag is great, but you need a bloddy big bag to carry it in, PLCE Sleeping Bag.

    But i will get ther in the end, thanks to all the guys out ther who have helped on this one, makes me feel more secure knowing that there is folks out there with more brains than me when it comes to little stickie things like this,

    The Hobbit
     
  7. Wallenstein

    Wallenstein Settler

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    I would recommend you wear trousers... I imagine missus in the Castle might have something to say about you bushcrafting in just your pants. :eek:
     
  8. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Yeah me bushing around in my jockeys my raise a few eyebrows, going to be using Craghopper Kiwi's
     
  9. sirex

    sirex New Member

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    also, maybe you could try to make your camps less hidden ? its hard to claim someone is a poacher if their in a bright blue tent with a flag on it :)
     
  10. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Dont really do tents, only doing a tent in the back garden as there is no where to hang my tarp, and the back garden has a great angle for a ski slope, not so greatt for sleeping on, tried it a few times, always ended up in a heap at the bottom, sodden wet cos it rained during the night, and the bottom is like a mud bath, great for piggies, not so great for us humans.
     
  11. sirex

    sirex New Member

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    try getting a tent outer, set that up, get a groundsheet from a shop and lay on that, then put a row of tent pegs in the ground with a board along them to stop yourself shifting downhill. -- might work ;p
     
  12. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Hi Sirex,
    Never thought about that, will give it a try, might work, then again might not, but am ever willing to try something new.

    Sent a letter of Complaint to the CC of Grampian Police about my tools being taken from me, and also to the Scottish Home Office on clarification as to what is a Knife, and what is a hobby tool, look forward to seeing what both of them have got to say.

    Hobbit
     
  13. Hobbit on a String

    Hobbit on a String Tenderfoot

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    Hi boys,

    the following is a reply to my letter to Grampian Police in regard to my use of tools whilst bushcrafting

    Mr Cohen,
    Regarding the above query I have to start by reminding you that the carrying of knives, or other bladed articles, in a public place with the intention of using them for criminal purposes is a high priority crime which is being rigorously enforced by not only Grampian Police but Police Forces nationwide, in an attempt to reduce the number of persons killed or seriously injured by such articles each year.
    It would be inappropriate for me to comment on any incident involving your dealings with Police Officers as any action taken by the Officers would depend on the circumstances of the particular incident, for example, the location, time, size and type of bladed articles found, etc.
    With regard to your request for advice and clarification on the subject of lawful possession of such articles I am afraid that again I cannot be of assistance via this form of communication. We would need far more information about yourself, where you go with these articles, how you travel to that place, the type of articles carried, the method of carriage, and so on.
    I would suggest that the best course of action is for you to contact Grampian Police by telephone on 0845 6005700 so an appointment could be made for you to be seen by Officers in person. These Officers may then be able to provide you with the help and advice you require after discussing your individual needs and circumstances.
    Finally may I reassure you that it is not the intention of Grampian Police to intentionally hinder or obstruct any person in the lawful pursuit of their hobby or pastime however, as I have already stated, the consequences of the misuse of such articles is a matter we cannot take lightly.
    If you require any further help and assistance in this or any other Police related issue please do not hesitate to contact us again but please bear in mind that we cannot discuss specific incidents in this way.
    Neil Stubbs
    P.C. G8159
    Grampian Police

    Basically they are out to stuff me every time i go out,

    Have fun..

    Hobbit
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Nomad

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    I cannot see how you have come to that conclusion based upon the letter above
     
  15. MartinK9

    MartinK9 Full Member

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  16. BigShot

    BigShot Native

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    Bloody hell!
    From the website MartinK9 just linked to...
    There goes another small piece of my still-present belief that it's the minority of coppers who lack common sense.

    Granted, they backed down on that point but hold to it on other equally silly points.

    Not a single mention of double edged fighting knives, jut the safety features and methods of opening on folders!
    Also comments that locks are fine just after that.

    AARGH!
    I need to stop reading about this stuff - it's depressing that people on the front line can be so ill-informed.

    Even some of the arguments put forward that have a correct point have completely incorrect reasoning.

    Scary.

    Before anyone says though...
    ...I know that's just a few forum users and that not all cops (perhaps most cops) are not so badly informed.
    :p
     
  17. BigShot

    BigShot Native

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    The guy posting as "ex-job-ex-pat" is an odd one. It's probably a good job he's ex-job too.

    Everything he says seems to be followed up by "quote a law to prove me wrong".
    Basically "I can (could) do whatever I want as a cop unless there's a law to stop me."

    "Bad cop"? Think so.
     
  18. ForgeCorvus

    ForgeCorvus Nomad

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    Bold, his emphasis. Underlined , mine

    A lot of what this guy says on that thread (the one on the uk police board) makes a lot of sense........Can we vote him in as the new 'Top Cop'
     
  19. BigShot

    BigShot Native

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    Yea, it was nice to see him trying to correct things in that thread.

    It's a shame "I'd rather not have it shut accidentally and remove half my fingers" doesn't count as "a reasonable excuse".
    That said, it's a shame Harris and Deegan ever became part of the problem - as without those rulings we'd still have the law as written and intended which would absolutely allow sub 3" lock knives to be carried as EDC just like sub 3" non-lockers can be now.

    I'd love to see that overturned properly and have the written law re-worded to allow for lockers as EDC. I'd find FAR less to complain about then. :p
     
  20. Simon

    Simon Nomad

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    Maybe we need a campaign?

    where's Mike? ;)
     

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