'Survival Tin' romance....

[3bears]

inspired by a recent thread I decided to give a go to the night out with a survival tin, just for kicks to see how much of the stuff is any real use, how it works together, and what is rubbish...

Kit contents

all I shall say is I woefully hang my head in shame!


Magnifying Lens UNUSED
Signal Mirror UNUSED
Note paper & Pencil UNUSED
Opinel 4 USED used to make feather sticks only
Solar powered LED light USED not really used much moon is waning full
Duct tape UNUSED
Whistle UNUSED
Thread UNUSED
Tool card (small hex head wrench, can opener, screwdriver, small saw blade ect...) USED light batoning of wood, dia' <30mm
String USED
Hair bobble USED (tie hair back, if you have long hair you know how much of a nice to have item this is lol)USED
Super glue UNUSED
'kwick tinder' USED worked well
Wire Saw USED used initially, but gave up easier to let logs burn through
Silva 28 UNUSED
Wire UNUSED
Sparkie thing USED worked well
Scalpel blade x2 UNUSED
about 20 feet of Paracord woven around the tin USED most useful- used the inner strands for shelter building
a few fishing hooks, splits, swivels and a big needle UNUSED

regrettably there are no pictures of my little adventure as I was expecting to get wet and took nothing more than the hair on my back, and the boots on my feet to a nice little spot on the side of Holyhead mountain with some sparse tree cover- far enough not to be disturbed but close enough to get home easily if I decided it was too cold lol

As I mentioned I was expecting to get went but was presently shocked by a clear sky- with a little fire going I was toasty warm all night- granted it could have been very different if it was a cold night in winter, and for more than a 'one nighter' but I think it highlights my point. you can get away with a decent knife, some fire starting kit and some paracord... so a mora clipper, fire steel, and a bit of paracord, maybe 20 feet are more than enough for this old bear, chuck in a space blanket for good measure and that's not a bad setup IMHO....

it really does shoot down in flames the old 'survival tin/kit' at least here in the UK for me!

has anyone else out there tried using their 'survival' kits for a one nighter~? if you haven't I suggest you give it a go, you might find it a bit of an eye opener!

 

[rik_uk3]

You will have all you used in your pocket anyway so the tin is a waste of time for the UK IMO.

 

[sandbender]

"...

Signal Mirror UNUSED
Note paper & Pencil UNUSED
Duct tape UNUSED
Whistle UNUSED
Thread UNUSED
String USED
Super glue UNUSED
Wire UNUSED
about 20 feet of Paracord woven around the tin USED

..."

I usually have all of the above with me, mostly for fixing and stitching things, making notes, the whistle for attracting attention and the mirror for personal admin and getting debris out of my eyes. However I do not carry them in a handy little tin, instead pockets, belt pouch or shoulder bag suffice.

"...has anyone else out there tried using their 'survival' kits for a one nighter~? if you haven't I suggest you give it a go, you might find it a bit of an eye opener!..."

They should try it for a three nighter or more, most people in the UK or similar countries* will get by for one night with only the clothes on their back, two nights can be a little more draining, three nights will give you more of a feel of what you can do and how comfortable you can be with your 'kit'.

Have a look at this article 'How to Build a Survival Kit on Bushcraft Principles', some good ideas there.

*Obviously if you are in the Cairngorms in January with only your survival tin then you will probably die.

 

[Manacles]

Interesting thread, I have to confess to ditching the contents of mine and using the tin as a tinder box. When I did it I thought that perhaps I was being naive and it was symptomatic of a lack of experience, maybe not though......

 

[Whittler Kev]

I was expecting to get wet and took nothing more than the hair on my back, and the boots on my feet to a nice little spot on the side of Holyhead mountain with some sparse tree cover- far enough not to be disturbed but close enough to get home easily if I decided it was too cold lol

You was NAKED
Glad you was close to home so you could run for cover should the local guide/scout troop came a calling

 

[3bears]

You was NAKED
Glad you was close to home so you could run for cover should the local guide/scout troop came a calling

lol 'hair on my back' figure of speech, there are reasons I'm called 3bears

 

[shaggystu]

I've managed to go 55 years without the need of a knife on me, why on earth carry a blade on you?

- taken from this thread

You will have all you used in your pocket anyway so the tin is a waste of time for the UK IMO.

make your mind up eh?

stuart.

 

[Hoodoo]

Seat belt in you car: worn but not used.

 

[rik_uk3]

- taken from this thread




make your mind up eh?

stuart.

I never said I don't carry a blade to a camp did I. I'd never carry one in daily life. Get your facts straight chum.

 

[shaggystu]

I never said I don't carry a blade to a camp did I. I'd never carry one in daily life. Get your facts straight chum.

fair enough, i just came to the conclusion that due to the nature of the thread (survival kits) that the topic of discussion was more along the lines of emergency prepardness rather than pre-planned camping trips. obviously for a pre-planned trip most of us would be carrying more than just emergency kit, but that's not really relevant here is it? surely saying that the knife in your pocket would replace the knife in your survival kit only really holds water if you've actually got a knife in your pocket?

stuart

 

[wingstoo]

I have John Wisemans home address if any one wants to write to him and ask why he developed the "Survival tin", of which he carries every day.

The Combat Survival Kit/Tin is based upon the legendary John 'Lofty' Wiseman's (ex SAS, Survival Expert Extraordinaire) Survival Kit. It is a survival kit primarily designed for the general public and is perfect for hikers, scout associations, climbers and anyone who enjoys the outdoors. The Combat Survival Tin's components have been compiled to allow for the individual to maintain a decent standard of survival for 48 -72 hours, while awaiting and aiding rescue.

Hope you had a fun night out, after all that's what it is all about, having fun and learning what's good and what isn't.

Thanks for sharing "your" experience

 

[wizard]

In all my years of carrying a tin, I have come to the conclusion that it was something the military devised to get by with minimal kit in an emergency. Something for your pocket you had in case you ditched the ruck and webbing. In civilian life many carried over the practice. To someone shopping for gear the concept of survival kit sounds interesting and I am sure that has sold plenty of survival kits. Most of us put our own together and hope we never need any of it.
I only keep one packed because it makes it easy to move survival type items from one pack to another, I know I will always have a firesteel and a mirror and whistle if needed without having to pack individual items. A good list would work to make sure nothing was left behind but I stll prefer the pocket size tin to keep everything tidy and present. Old habits and all that.

 

[Hoodoo]

I have used the contents of a mini kit lots of time over the past 45+ years I've been carrying one. Several memorable examples: using my fishhooks and line and a willow rod to catch golden trout in the Mission Mountains of Montana, sewing up my pants that ripped in the bottom, using duct tape to to repair a fishing rod, repairing a hip belt on a friend's backpack, and using wire to attach a windshield wiper that had blown off a tour bus I was riding on during a trip to Chicago. The whistle is always handy for keeping in touch with mushroom hunting partners, and once on a backpacking trip in the UP, I found a lost soul who got separated from her backpacking partner and left a note at a campsite with paper and pencil, which, BTW, the ranger found and caught up with us on the trail, radioed ahead, and found her partner who took a wrong turn on the trail. A lesson here is try not to lose contact with your hiking partner. Or stay in you backyard lawn.

 

[johnboy]

Seat belt in you car: worn but not used.

Indeed but the seat belt needs to actually be able to stop you going through the windscreen in the event of a crash and you dont wear a 'lap belt' style seat belt if you're going 200mph laps of the Nurburgring. To be effective seat belt needs to be: worn, practical and suitable for purpose.

I have John Wisemans home address if any one wants to write to him and ask why he developed the "Survival tin", of which he carries every day.

In all my years of carrying a tin, I have come to the conclusion that it was something the military devised to get by with minimal kit in an emergency. Something for your pocket you had in case you ditched the ruck and webbing.

My understanding from what I've read and all of the canon surrounding the SAS survival Handbook is that 'Lofty' spent a large part of his service career with the SAS and a good part of that was teaching survival techniques to SAS soldiers. At some point after leaving the services he wrote the SAS survival handbook which popularised the concept of the Survival tin and survival pouch.

The Survival pouch in the SAS Survival Handbook I assume is based on the fact that as a special forces soldier you're likely to be operating in all sorts of unsavoury conditions in all sorts of unsavoury places and wearing minimal belt kit. The 'SAS' Belt kit contemporary to the initial printing of the SAS Survival handbook had such a survival pouch as part of the set up...

I assume ( possibly incorrectly) the tin follows along from the same experience chain the need for a small relatively lightweight set of kit to assist a Special forces soldier who is: Exceptionally fit, Well trained, mentally tough and physically hardened to: Survive, escape and evade etc...

It's the cross over of that kit from that environment to the world the majority of us inhabit and the 'practicallity' of such a kit in the UK in the 21st century that seems to cause the most comment of forums etc.

Are they actually any good for 'survival' in the Uk in 2011??

For example when the SAS survival handbook was first published in 1986 the concept of a hand held highly portable phone with a network of coverage pretty much all over the UK was a thing of pure fantasy.

Twenty five years later here now in 2011 its a reality...

I guess also much of the UK's wilderness areas also generally ( not all I agree) happen to be upland areas with sparse tree cover. Open environments exposed to all of the elements. My experience is a SAS type tin is not much good in that environment. A better Survival kit might be a Orange Poly Survival bag some high energy food and an extra warm layer. A wire saw and limited fishing kit is not a lot of good to you.

If you're heading off to spend weeks in the jungles of South America or on a wilderness trip say to Alaska then yep you might want to consider a tin or a more comprehensive kit. How many folk actually do this type of trip I do not know..

 

[Rabbitsmacker]

Indeed but the seat belt needs to actually be able to stop you going through the windscreen in the event of a crash and you dont wear a 'lap belt' style seat belt if you're going 200mph laps of the Nurburgring. To be effective seat belt needs to be: worn, practical and suitable for purpose.





My understanding from what I've read and all of the canon surrounding the SAS survival Handbook is that 'Lofty' spent a large part of his service career with the SAS and a good part of that was teaching survival techniques to SAS soldiers. At some point after leaving the services he wrote the SAS survival handbook which popularised the concept of the Survival tin and survival pouch.

The Survival pouch in the SAS Survival Handbook I assume is based on the fact that as a special forces soldier you're likely to be operating in all sorts of unsavoury conditions in all sorts of unsavoury places and wearing minimal belt kit. The 'SAS' Belt kit contemporary to the initial printing of the SAS Survival handbook had such a survival pouch as part of the set up...

I assume ( possibly incorrectly) the tin follows along from the same experience chain the need for a small relatively lightweight set of kit to assist a Special forces soldier who is: Exceptionally fit, Well trained, mentally tough and physically hardened to: Survive, escape and evade etc...

It's the cross over of that kit from that environment to the world the majority of us inhabit and the 'practicallity' of such a kit in the UK in the 21st century that seems to cause the most comment of forums etc.

Are they actually any good for 'survival' in the Uk in 2011??

For example when the SAS survival handbook was first published in 1986 the concept of a hand held highly portable phone with a network of coverage pretty much all over the UK was a thing of pure fantasy.

Twenty five years later here now in 2011 its a reality...

I guess also much of the UK's wilderness areas also generally ( not all I agree) happen to be upland areas with sparse tree cover. Open environments exposed to all of the elements. My experience is a SAS type tin is not much good in that environment. A better Survival kit might be a Orange Poly Survival bag some high energy food and an extra warm layer. A wire saw and limited fishing kit is not a lot of good to you.

If you're heading off to spend weeks in the jungles of South America or on a wilderness trip say to Alaska then yep you might want to consider a tin or a more comprehensive kit. How many folk actually do this type of trip I do not know..

i would say that covers it people! lol

i have to say, wisemans books is what started all this bushy stuff for me, long before i knew who his royal mears-ness was. But, having put together my own tins which i believe is good practise as it makes you think 'what am i puttin this in for?', i have never even used it. the survival pouch is much more usable in general activities and it is very much in the 'response pack' vein of thinking. having said all that, if i was about to go deeply off trail, i would take the tin, but for a weekend static camping doing bushy stuff....maybe not.

 

[Hoodoo]

Indeed... To be effective seat belt needs to be: worn, practical and suitable for purpose.

Indeed, to be effective a mini kit needs to be: carried, practical and suitable for purpose. A single night out and then listing the parts of the kit that were never used is hardly evidence that the components are "useless" no more than saying that during a day of driving you never had to rely on your seatbelt to save your life and therefore it's useless.

 

[johnboy]

Indeed, to be effective a mini kit needs to be: carried, practical and suitable for purpose. A single night out and then listing the parts of the kit that were never used is hardly evidence that the components are "useless" no more than saying that during a day of driving you never had to rely on your seatbelt to save your life and therefore it's useless.

Yep but you might ask yourself if a single night out is a realistic 'scenario' for the UK with it's terrain types, Population density, SAR system etc.

For a lot of folk on the forum the debate is not ( possibly that interesting ) if a kit is useful in the Maine woods or half way up Mt Pirongia. Is it actually any good to me in a UK environment??

 

[wingstoo]

At some point after leaving the services he wrote the SAS survival handbook

The "SAS Survival handbook" is the training manual for SAS troopers, and above, which John wrote during the part in his Army career he was "THE" survival training instructor for the SAS rather than after he left. Once he had left he was advised to make it a book for the public to read and learn from, something he priginally was sure of, but as he had written the book, he found a publisher to bring it to the rest of the world.

 

[Hoodoo]

Yep but you might ask yourself if a single night out is a realistic 'scenario' for the UK with it's terrain types, Population density, SAR system etc.

For a lot of folk on the forum the debate is not ( possibly that interesting ) if a kit is useful in the Maine woods or half way up Mt Pirongia. Is it actually any good to me in a UK environment??

I understand that completely. And given the fact that I carry an urban "survival kit," I don't see why it wouldn't. The main components of my urban kit are a sewing kit, antacids, chapstick and a small flashlight for when the building loses power. And a few other doodads as well. Let the kit fit the purpose. And the advantage of the kit is that I don't have to be wondering if I remembered to put this or that in this or that pocket. In fact, I often find pockets the worst place to carry essentials, especially if I have nylon pants on. Things have a nasty habit of sliding out of them. At any rate, the whole thing boils down to common sense. Take what you need, leave the rest. Let your experience and common sense be your guide. And let others do what they want. If you don't want to carry a kit, that's fine with me. But I don't tell people NOT to carry a kit (or berate them because they do) because I don't have a crystal ball. Or at least one that works.

 

[Ex-member EagleOwl]

Used to have one but for me i just can't see the point.

They are fun to put together though but i think the tin came before the contents. I'd happily swap the whole survival tin for a good sheath knife, some paracord, a poly bag some puritabs and a few fish hooks.SAK