Survival bag vs survival blanket in the mountains.

[BigMonster]

Hi guys.
I need some advice. My girlfriend is going out with me more and more and I'm making a little emergency kit for her. It happened once in snowdonia that she separated from the group and the whistle I gave her came very handy. It's mostly for the UK hills so nothing extreme or fancy, more of a "stay put, don't get worse, get found".

Apart from a whistle, key ring solar torch, chokolate bar and a signalling mirror I'm a little stuck in the shelter departament.
I have two items, thick orange survival bag and the SOL survival blanket (better quality and purpose made space blanket). So what in your opinion would be a better option if it gets cold, wet and you don't know where you are going. Jump in the bag and sit on your rucksack, or the old blanket and the candle trick.

Please can we keep suggestions within those two options? She is a begginer in bushcraft/survival skills so I'm thinking something quick and simple that would keep a person alive until found.
Thank you for any thoughts.

 

[Imagedude]

I'd recommend a bothy bag. I've been using a 1-man bag for years but sadly they are no longer available. They are considerably more expensive than orange survival bags but they are much much more comfortable and versatile.

Scotland (Buachaille Etive Mòr) on a wet day in June 2012 from the inside of a bothy bag

And on the outside

 

[BigMonster]

I actually carry a rab 4 man silnylon boothy for our group. It's more about something she can stick in the jacket pocket that would fend off rain and cold until we realise someone is missing

 

[Imagedude]

Every individual should carry their own survival system and not rely on group kit, ideally everyone should have their own daysack and not be carrying their gear in pockets. However carrying a SOL survival bag is a much better idea than the old style orange heavy duty bin bags. One problem with the SOL bags is that once opened they will not fit back into their stuff sacks. This may result in the user delaying the deployment of the bag as they know that it is not readily reusable. Blizzard Bags may be worth considering too, they are discussed in the link below.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi...ums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=56000

 

[Limaed]

Get a Blizzard bag their a life saver. Blankets are useful in some situations but a lot of heat is lost through convection. Make sure she packs a spare fleece, hat & gloves also. I would ditch the signal mirror & get a decent torch. Don't forget the mobile phone & leave word of intended route & time due back.

 

[cbr6fs]

A emergency bivvy bag is a LOT warmer, no comparison in my opinion.

Once you are in a bag you're in it, if you have a blanket over you and the wind gusts it's bye bye blanket.
Likewise a candle isn't going to be any use on a gusty mountain side in the rain, even if you get it lit it's going to stay that way for long.

You can lay under a bivvy bag without getting in it, you can't slip into a blanket it's going to have the edge somewhere that's going to either leak water of heat.

I'd also ditch the solar powered torch, absolutely useless.
Buy some decent torches to go with your decent whistle.


Agree 100% with the imagedude dude, group emergency protection is not a good idea.
1/ Each person needs to have their own gear, a 4 person shelter is useless if the person carrying the shelter isn't with you
2/ Why would 4 people want to spend the night on a mountain anyways in a emergency?

 

[rg598]

I would go with the bag. I've used emergency blankets in the past and they leave a lot to be desired. When the wind is blowing, they are hard to keep in place.

 

[Angry Pirate]

For the weight and price I'd go with both a survival bag and a foil blanket for extra insulation.
I personally carry a bothy bag instead of a survival bag as it is more versatile but it is dearer and heavier and specifically not what the op was asking about.

 

[BigMonster]

Thank you guys for the input.
The 4 man boothy is not really an emergency gear as we used it so far once to stop for a brew and a sandwich in foul weather.
Like I said before, I'm thinking about a small packet a person can slip in to the pocket and use when separated from the group for any reason.
She is not going to get nowhere near a lonely overnight in a blizzard.

 

[Limaed]

Why would 4 people want to spend the night on a mountain anyways in a emergency?

I think you've kind of answered your own question, it's as maybe they can't get down because the ground is to serious, they are lost or perhaps a group member is injured. All these things potentially constitute an emergency.

Bothy bags / group shelters are very good kit as they are very light & compact yet create a micro climate once around a group. They are ideal for brew stops as well as if a problem arises.

 

[hog]

A bag will save your life and has a dozen uses, a blanket is useless when wet.

 

[hog]

2/ Why would 4 people want to spend the night on a mountain anyways in a emergency?

Because sometimes sh!t happens and it becomes unavoidable.

 

[cbr6fs]

I think you've kind of answered your own question, it's as maybe they can't get down because the ground is to serious, they are lost or perhaps a group member is injured. All these things potentially constitute an emergency.

Bothy bags / group shelters are very good kit as they are very light & compact yet create a micro climate once around a group. They are ideal for brew stops as well as if a problem arises.

In my experience, if a group member is injured and there is no mobile phone signal some of the group will stay with the injured party while the rest go for help.

If there were 4 of us i would have 1 stay with the casualty and the other 2 go for help.

All the emergency bivvy bags i've bought over the years would fit 2 inside, it'd be a squeeze for 2 very fat people, but in cold wet weather that's not really a bad thing.
We've also managed to sleeve one single person bag into another, so there are options available even with single bags.

We have tried one of the group emergency bivvy bags, in practive on a very very windy mountain side it proved to be a very bad choice, the larger surface area caught the wind, it was damp inside after only a few seconds from everyones breath, after 10 mins we'd had enough which was fortunate as the wind has started to tear the plastic.

I'm not saying they're not good for ALL situations, in the Nordic countries on a windless day i imagine they'd be better than our experiences, but as emergencies go on a UK mountainside i am of the opinion that a single bivvy bag is a better option for more of the time.

A bag will save your life and has a dozen uses, a blanket is useless when wet.

No idea about anyone else, but personally i'm talking about emergency survival blankets NOT cloth blankets.
For emergency survival blankets it makes no difference if they are wet or not as most are a plastic type material.

Because sometimes sh!t happens and it becomes unavoidable.

In my experience very few things in life are unavoidable, emergencies usually occur as a direct result of many bad choices and decisions after another.

I would also be grateful if you Please read my previous posts in this thread, i am suggesting each person carries a emergency bivvy bag rather than one person in a group carrying one large 4 person bivvy, this would cover your "unavoidable" scenarios.

 

[Quixoticgeek]

Have a look at Susanne Williams Staying Alive Cold Kit. There are a couple of threads about it on here somewhere.

Julia

 

[janso]

I think you've kind of answered your own question, it's as maybe they can't get down because the ground is to serious, they are lost or perhaps a group member is injured. All these things potentially constitute an emergency.

Bothy bags / group shelters are very good kit as they are very light & compact yet create a micro climate once around a group. They are ideal for brew stops as well as if a problem arises.

+1 for kisu/ group bothy; great bit of kit yet small and compact depending on size. They can get too warm inside!! Mandatory kit for MR teams whilst conducting patient assessments on the hill.
With the whole bag/ blanket conundrum, a bag can be a blanket if cut but a blanket can't be a bag without duct tape! Blizzard bags are my preference but a pig to reform and stow after use.
I'm not sure one is needed if you're carrying overnight kit on your back? For use with day packs, an emergency bag is worth carrying in my book.


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[janso]

http://www.blizzardsurvival.com/product.php/100/blizzard-survival-bag


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[presterjohn]

I have one of these SOL Emergency bags in my emergency kit. To be honest I have never opened it but the reviews indicate it is a worthwhile bit of kit. The best thing is that it packs down so small.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWcf-ufzPY0

 

[jackcbr]

I've got one of these. Very nice and compact, but never had cause to use it, so can't rate it really. But my research led me to this as a good step up from a blanket.

http://www.ultralightoutdoorgear.co...rvive-outdoors-longer-thermal-bivvy-sack-p109

 

[bigbear]

IMHO
blizzard bag per person as individual kit and a group shelter, I dont know if Ortovox still make the two person one I have bit its so small and light you dont know its there. Having said that I invariably carry a four person shelter.
survival blankets are next go iseless in the wind, a survival bag is not great, they are heavy for the benefit you get. If you are spendig amy sort of time on the hills invest in some good emergency kit, hopefully you wil never need it, but one day.......

 

[Paul_B]

I've recently seen online an emergency blanket made of what looked like a foam material. It has 4 holes, one per corner, so it could be pegged down or fastened into a bivvy bag. It is waterproof and with insulation but too bulky for a pocket. Also I'd rather use a kisu/ bothy bag. Blankets are widely thought of as being useless in the hills. Best kept for the end of a fun run!

No offence meant to the op but it sounds like you need to look more to your group's behaviour. I read I read between the lines that your gf is inexperienced but the group isn't. It sounds like you want something for her to use when the group has left her behind or she has wandered off. Either way you're worrying about giving her kit to carry in a pocket (no rucksack too carry something better?) rather than making sure she is safe. Sorry but don't get into a situation where she's able to get lost or left behind.
As I said I'm reading between the lines and probably mistaken but it is a simple thing and very good practice to look after novices in the hills. Keep them in the middle of your group. Although if I ever left my gf behind somewhere in the hills I'd be sure that would only happen once. Probably get some appendages removed shortly after being re-united too!