Should We Eat Meat?

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Jul 30, 2012
3,570
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westmidlands
We wouldn't have evolved into something like a cow without meat. Just like a huge muscle house gorilla didn't evolve into something like a cow.

I contest your point Sir, the gorilla is on the way to be the elephant of the ape world, and the chimpanzee the lion. Elephants, rhinoceri, waterbuffalo, hippos, cows, camels horses are all large strong animals, bigger than the largest carniverous land predator, and larger than the largest omniverous land predator, but they all spend all day eating, like gorillas. There are limited high nutrient food scources in the wild that are not other creatures, leading to a lack of capability to expand populations, and buffer against calamity like famine. For example nuts beans (seeds basically)and other nutritious plant food sources are only avaliable on a limited basis and timeframe, meat is avaliable all year round, otherwise carnivores wouldn't have evolved to feed off ruffage eating animals. Without animal proetin supplementing our diet we would never had the time to walk on hind legs because we would have spent all day sitting on our arzes, so in retrospect maybe were devolving.

But I think a steak once in a while never hurt.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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......Elephants, rhinoceri, waterbuffalo, hippos, cows, camels horses are all large strong animals, bigger than the largest carniverous land predator, and larger than the largest omniverous land predator......

Are you sure about that? (apart from the elephant obviously) The largest Polar Bear (carnivorous)recorded weighed 2210 pounds (1002Kg) and stood 11'3" (3.39m) in on its hind legs. Kodiak Bears (omnivorous) aren't much smaller.

Generally the great size of both species is attributed to their higher protein diets relative to other bears. In fact many scientist now dispete that the Kodiak is actually a separate species from other American Grizzlies but differs solely because of said diet.
 
Last edited:
Jul 30, 2012
3,570
224
westmidlands
Are you sure about that? (apart from the elephant obviously) The largest Polar Bear (carnivorous)recorded weighed 2210 pounds (1002Kg) and stood 11'3" (3.39m) in on its hind legs. Kodiak Bears (omnivorous) aren't much smaller.

Generally the great size of both species is attributed to their higher protein diets relative to other bears. In fact many scientist now dispete that the Kodiak is actually a separate species from other American Grizzlies but differs solely because of said diet.

yup I'm sure, I know that the grizzlies and polarbear are basically the same size and do interbreed, I've never shaved the bears so I don't know the entire physioligy, but they're very similar I believe.

Elephant 10 ton
rhino 5 ton
hippo 4 ton
waterbuffalo 2 ton
indian bovine thing 2 1/2 ton
shire horse 2 ton
camel, I really have no idea.

As for the largest polar bear was it a wild one or a captive one, as captive pigs get awful big too.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
The info I'm finding on water buffalo puts the average at less than 1200 pounds and the record at 2200 (only a bit over 1 ton)
Same for the larger species of camel.
Hippos at 4000 pounds (only 2 tons)
Shire Horse was 3300 pounds (a full 700 pounds shy of 2 tons)
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
I am very happy to eat meat but believe the way most pork and poultry particularly is produced is a very sad reflection on our humanity. Watch this captivating film and think about it next time you are stood in Tescos wondering if the free range chicken is really worth the extra. I tend to choose to eat cheap but good veggie food most of the time and well reared or wild meat occasionally.
[video=vimeo;57126054]https://vimeo.com/57126054[/video]
 

wingstoo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 12, 2005
2,274
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South Marches
Just glad I don't live in China where there are a billion or so people needing to be fed, UK local is a far better way to go.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
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I think you'll find that 2200lbs is just a little short of a ton...;)

Like about 40lb, 20cwt is a ton, a cwt is 112lb

20 X 112 = 2240 :D

A US ton is 2000 pounds. A metric tonne is 2240. I was using the smaller US measure to give the benefit of the doubt as to whether the animals in question reached the ton marks. I suppose to really give the benefit of the doubt, we should use the "short ton" which is 1600 pounds.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
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derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
China have done remarkably well at feeding themselves and limiting population growth for many years whereas we in the UK are major net importers of food. There is a significant problem now that India and China have rapidly increasing wealth and part of the new wealthy lifestyle includes eating more meat. You can feed several vegetarians for every one meat eater.
 
Jul 12, 2012
1,309
0
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Liverpool
This is a really loaded debait on both sides,

Personaly I try to eat as much Wild meat as I can (Venison, Wild boar, Rabbit etc), but I also try to eat ethicaly old bread farmed meats. And I try to cook as much of my own stuff as I can and not just on a meal basis, I try and make my own sausages (haven't tried ham) but I have made my own bacon from a wild boar and loved it.
And I am in the last 2 - 3 months cutting out any and all fast foods just for the simple fact that I am really sick of eating them and I am losing weight by doing so ( it's so tempting at 6:30 to go to a macdonnalds to get a breckfast than wait till i get to work) but it's paying off.

But Having said that I am also trying to cut down on things either freighted in from the other side of the world, I try and eat as much stuff as I can sourced inside the EU. I don't eat bagged salads even in a pinch as I think they are vile and taste sterile and luckily some one in work has hooked me up with a contact who will deliver Fresh organic veg bags to my office (mostly grown within 25 miles), and grabbing a load of it and throwing it on a sandwich with some really fine Organic ham is a luxuary with some mustard or mayo, but intensively farmed veg is really harmful to the environment. As Hugh said ground used for mono culture is toxic and will for the most part only grow with a hefty dose of additives to the soil and if that crop fails or fall's out of favor it takes work and a hell of a lot of nasty stuff to get things to grow (crop rotation is no longer thought of as a good idea), it's depressing really.

What's needed is more verity, on the plate and on the farm.
 

wingstoo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 12, 2005
2,274
40
South Marches
A US ton is 2000 pounds. A metric tonne is 2240. I was using the smaller US measure to give the benefit of the doubt as to whether the animals in question reached the ton marks. I suppose to really give the benefit of the doubt, we should use the "short ton" which is 1600 pounds.

Funny weights and measures in the US then, we have 16oz to a pound, 112 lbs to a hundred weight, 20 hundred weight to a ton, a metric tonne here is 1000Kg, a Kg is approximately 2.2lbs so 2200lbs to a metric tonne...

20 fluid Ounces is a pint in the UK only 16 fluid ounces to a US pint, so a UK gallon weighs in at 10lb whereas a US gallon weighs 8lb...
 
Jul 12, 2012
1,309
0
38
Liverpool
Funny weights and measures in the US then, we have 16oz to a pound, 112 lbs to a hundred weight, 20 hundred weight to a ton, a metric tonne here is 1000Kg, a Kg is approximately 2.2lbs so 2200lbs to a metric tonne...

20 fluid Ounces is a pint in the UK only 16 fluid ounces to a US pint, so a UK gallon weighs in at 10lb whereas a US gallon weighs 8lb...

To be honest though I think that is down to the American war of independance, we adjusted our weights and mesures the US didn't. Kinda like English they use Fall for Autum and older spellings of Color etc as we changed ours and they had 70 odd years of isolation to the main branch of english all of them where correct English once but then got standardized. To London English with classical epithets and we have the mess that we have today.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Funny weights and measures in the US then, we have 16oz to a pound, 112 lbs to a hundred weight, 20 hundred weight to a ton, a metric tonne here is 1000Kg, a Kg is approximately 2.2lbs so 2200lbs to a metric tonne...

20 fluid Ounces is a pint in the UK only 16 fluid ounces to a US pint, so a UK gallon weighs in at 10lb whereas a US gallon weighs 8lb...

Yeah sorry, my mistake. A metric tonne (1000 kilos) is only an even 2200 pounds.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
To be honest though I think that is down to the American war of independance, we adjusted our weights and mesures the US didn't. Kinda like English they use Fall for Autum and older spellings of Color etc as we changed ours and they had 70 odd years of isolation to the main branch of english all of them where correct English once but then got standardized. To London English with classical epithets and we have the mess that we have today.

Interestingly we stayed with English measures rather than going metric way back then because England was still our major trading partner. I was taught that Webster Americanized the spellings in his dictionary as a form of rebellion after the war. I didn't realize that those spellings were an older English form. That's definitely an interesting twist.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida

wingstoo

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
May 12, 2005
2,274
40
South Marches
That's a little misleading. It says the hundredweight (cwt) as used in the US and Canada is 100 pounds. In truth, the hundredweight isn't used or even taught here at all. In fact we don't use anything between pounds and a ton.

I guess we see that on the US tele progs when they always say someone weighs 280lb, whereas in the UK it would be 20 stone
 
Jul 12, 2012
1,309
0
38
Liverpool
Interestingly we stayed with English measures rather than going metric way back then because England was still our major trading partner. I was taught that Webster Americanized the spellings in his dictionary as a form of rebellion after the war. I didn't realize that those spellings were an older English form. That's definitely an interesting twist.

Oddly you might be interested to know the First American embassy was in Liverpool, it still Stands today (I think it's now a Solicitors). I am going past tomorrow I'll try an rember to grab a picture.
What's even odder, the first burrial in the Anglican Cathedral in Liverpool was a American Trading ship Captain, he was killed by a member of his own crew if I recall but his headstone is still on the side of the cemitary I think his remains where repatriated in the 50's, what I find even odder is. The first Transatlantic radio broadcast of a commerical nature (purely radio I must stress that), was from NYC to Liverpool and it was a order for Sheffield Knives, from a merchant in upper bold street the order was only partly filled as they didn't really know how to handle the payment an the company that orderd them had to send a guy with money in the end to pay for them.

But Yes the standardiseation took place not long after the Revolution, and there was some trade but not a lot and it lead to American English to diverge from the British English root, there was also some local pride involved as well (I think American looms for cloth where smaller and such like) so where called X weight depending on what it was. Oddly this is also why our billion and the US billion are differnt ours is the accepted standard but the US one is shorter I have something book marked about this that is fascinating I'll dig the link out.
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Interestingly we stayed with English measures rather than going metric way back then because England was still our major trading partner. I was taught that Webster Americanized the spellings in his dictionary as a form of rebellion after the war. I didn't realize that those spellings were an older English form. That's definitely an interesting twist.

I thought most American spelling was 'designed' to make learning and writing English easier for immigrants in ye olde days?
 

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