Reindeer Parka heads up

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Asa Samuel

Native
May 6, 2009
1,450
1
St Austell.
I don't quite get what he means by "no good" in -10 ? I thought it was supposed to be good in cold weather? I think I'm missing something :confused:
 

_scorpio_

Need to contact Admin...
Dec 22, 2009
947
0
east sussex UK
dont these things molt all their fur in warmer weather? so you would have to keep it in the freezer until a trip to the arctic?
 

forestwalker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
dont these things molt all their fur in warmer weather? so you would have to keep it in the freezer until a trip to the arctic?

Your local furrier should have a freezer for storing it in (at a price). But my impression from reafing Stefansson and other is that reindeer makes good clothing, but clothing that is ephemeral in nature. It will loose hairs if used, and you therefore would expect to replace it every year or so (if used the whole season, not for a week every year). And if it is the real thing it is not tanned at all, just softened, and that means you have to be carefull in warmer climates.

I'm working on a new warm parka, but that one will have fake fur (an all wool rya rug) and a poplin shell. I'll probably put a real fur ruff around the face opening. It should be very good for standing around waiting for a late season hare or roe deer, for sitting in camp, or rest breaks. At -20 C or lower.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
I have seen wolverine fur for sale that might be ideal for the parka you describe. It doesn't freeze even in exceptionally low temperatures and for modern uses it's tanned, not rawhide or smoked.

cheers,
Toddy
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Last edited:

javi

Forager
Nov 4, 2008
131
0
Hampton
I'll ask Donagh next time I see him.
In the meantime though, this Canadian company post worldwide.

http://www.furcanada.com/skins-furs-and-hides.html

Heck of a price though, I know I've seen them a lot cheaper.

Ebay link

http://cgi.ebay.com/TANNED-CANADIAN...temQQimsxZ20100131?IMSfp=TL100131171016r24992

might be worth finding someone to split with ? One skin ought to provide around the face cuffs for a couple of parkas at least.
cheers,
M


I too was amazed to find out about the (probably) unique property of wolverine fur making it ideal for framing hoods. Unfortunately it seems there aren't that many of them around any more :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8494000/8494397.stm
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
:sigh:

I'm an anomally in this bushcrafty thing.
I'm vegan, and it takes me all my time to wear leather boots let alone anything else.

I'm also a realist.
People only exist in extreme climatic conditions because of their clothing. No where is that more apparant than in the Arctic.
There is no other material, no other fibre, no other clothing, that works to preserve and allow life there, anywhere near as effectively as fur and animal hide.

The peoples who live there, descendants of those who have lived there for millenia, make full use of the advantages of modern life, but they still when the situation calls for it, hunt, prepare, tan, animal skins.

The wolverine is a superb example of a species so thoroughly adapted to it's habitat :)

I did wonder when I posted the link if it would get a critical response; thank you for at least being courteous about it.
As far as I know however, there is no other fur that does not freeze around the face. It is strongly hydrophobic, lasts for many years, and yes, the animal which produces it, is become a threatened species.

Humanity is not a benevolent species, it is a very self centred one.
No where is this more apparant than in our financial dealings.
If the skin becomes too expensive, and it must surely be at that point by now, then that becomes the inspiration of innovation.
Why can't there be a man made equivalent that works as well as the Wolverine skin ?

But then, if that develops then other skins would follow suit and ultimately it would deprive peoples who have no other way of obtaining a livelihood, from necessary earnings.

No easy answer. For myself I would not visit the Arctic if in doing so I had to be the reason that an animal lost it's life. That's *my* choice though, and I make it from a warm centrally heated little house connected to mains power and the internet. It's easy for me to say since I have a choice.

regards,
Toddy
 

forestwalker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'll ask Donagh next time I see him.
In the meantime though, this Canadian company post worldwide.

http://www.furcanada.com/skins-furs-and-hides.html

Heck of a price though, I know I've seen them a lot cheaper.

I have a familly, and "need" a good fur ruff for my anorak as well, so there is no problem finding use for a whole hide if I got it. As to the price, thre ones listed are -- as you say -- fairly steep, and I suspect that one that is already inside the EU is presumably legal here as well. I can get a red fox for SEK 600 or so (UKP 50), but a wolverine would obviously be worth more than that. What kind of price ranges have you seen?
 

forestwalker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I'm vegan, and it takes me all my time to wear leather boots let alone anything else.

I'm also a realist.
People only exist in extreme climatic conditions because of their clothing. No where is that more apparant than in the Arctic.
There is no other material, no other fibre, no other clothing, that works to preserve and allow life there, anywhere near as effectively as fur and animal hide.

That is so refreshing to read. Far too many people feel that they for some reason have The Answer, and that there is no way that anyone else can be right, and that everyone else should have the same opinion, or else. And as you say, once you get far enough north there is no way to live -- short of out of a grocey store -- without animal products. You need the high fat diet, you need the skins and fur for clothing.

As far as I know however, there is no other fur that does not freeze around the face. It is strongly hydrophobic, lasts for many years, and yes, the animal which produces it, is become a threatened species.

I'm told that even wolverine does gets frost, but much, much less, and that it sheds the frost easilly.

No easy answer. For myself I would not visit the Arctic if in doing so I had to be the reason that an animal lost it's life. That's *my* choice though, and I make it from a warm centrally heated little house connected to mains power and the internet. It's easy for me to say since I have a choice.

You probably could visit the actic, wearing down -- or even syntheric fill -- insulated clothing, canvas, nylon and rubber boots, etc. Depending on where on the vegan scale you are wool or synthetic clothes, etc. Not as well equipped as someone wearing the "real stuff", but not badly off. For something like the bushcraftuk expedition it would be only a minor inconvenience, for the true arctic and bush travel there it would be a handicap, but doable.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
I have a familly, and "need" a good fur ruff for my anorak as well, so there is no problem finding use for a whole hide if I got it. As to the price, thre ones listed are -- as you say -- fairly steep, and I suspect that one that is already inside the EU is presumably legal here as well. I can get a red fox for SEK 600 or so (UKP 50), but a wolverine would obviously be worth more than that. What kind of price ranges have you seen?

I was offered one last year, minus the head and the legs.....for some reason folks use the heads on Davy Crocket type hats and the claws for pendants and the like, for £80.
I know it was a bargain from someone that I trade quite frequently with, but I wouldn't expect to pay more than double that usually for a skin I'd been offered in that context.

Might be wrong about Wolverine prices though :dunno: tbh it's not something that crops up normally in Scotland :)

cheers,
Toddy
 

javi

Forager
Nov 4, 2008
131
0
Hampton
Hi Toddy. I hope I didn't come across as being disapproving or sanctimonius because that's certainly not my position. Personally I do eat meat and have no problem with the humane taking of animals to make use of them. I too consider myself a realist and I consider animals from the perspective of being available for our us, as well as being fascnating in their own right.
I was however unaware of wolverines being threatened due to loss of habitat; the focus of arctic species being lost usually being on polar bears. I saw the BBC article at around the same t:)ime as this thread so thought I'd refer to it.
I'm an anthropologist by training (though not by trade unfortunately) so have had the privelege of learning about our ritual, ceremonial and magical use of various animals in addition to the good :)old ingenious use of them to survive in some pretty hostile conditions.
My initial 2 line post might have given the wrong impression so thought I'd try to flesh it out a bit
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Hi Javi :)
No, you were perfectly courteous, and the information is very valid and relevant.
Normally one would expect to read that over hunting was considered to be the reason for a species population drop, this research implies that it might well be environmental.

Thinking about it later, I truthfully believe that there is no way I (personally) can justify buying and using wolverine fur. I don't need it dead, is basically my reasoning there.
When I was offered the skin last year I thought it was a beautiful fur, and I knew of it's value in really low temperature environments, but it just wasn't *right* here, anymore than an ocelot or tiger skin coat would have been *right* here.

I don't think I'm making myself very clear :eek: I don't have a problem with hunting for food or culling. I do have a problem with the *big man* (Scottish sarcasm at it's most scathing there ;) )taking out a beast just to prove he or she can. I do understand and accept the use of furs, hides and skins as the most suitable (sometimes the only) clothing in certain environments.

I appreciate the conversation in this thread that has allowed the topic to be discussed rationally without it becoming bitterly polarised :approve:
Everybody has an opinion, understanding where someone else is coming from with theirs isn't always widely accepted.

cheers,
Toddy
 

forestwalker

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Hi Javi :)
No, you were perfectly courteous, and the information is very valid and relevant.
Normally one would expect to read that over hunting was considered to be the reason for a species population drop, this research implies that it might well be environmental.

In the case of the wolverine I suspect that it is combination; they are a detested predator of reindeer (the Sami hate them almost as much as they hate wolves), in most areas the habitat is being encroached uppon, and there is of course a market in the the furs, which could lead to overhunting.

Thinking about it later, I truthfully believe that there is no way I (personally) can justify buying and using wolverine fur. I don't need it dead, is basically my reasoning there.
When I was offered the skin last year I thought it was a beautiful fur, and I knew of it's value in really low temperature environments, but it just wasn't *right* here, anymore than an ocelot or tiger skin coat would have been *right* here.

I agree with your reasoning. If the tiger and ocelot was plentiful enought that sustainable hunting was possible (ha!), and that the whole animal was used I would have no more problem with it than I have with cow-hide in my boots; there is very little vaste in a modern slaugherhouse (regardless of all the other things one could say about them), and no one kills a cow just for the hide. But killing an animal in a wastefull manner for no other reason than fashion? Not acceptable in my book.

I don't think I'm making myself very clear :eek: I don't have a problem with hunting for food or culling. I do have a problem with the *big man* (Scottish sarcasm at it's most scathing there ;) )taking out a beast just to prove he or she can. I do understand and accept the use of furs, hides and skins as the most suitable (sometimes the only) clothing in certain environments.

I ever so much agree with you on this. The only way one could possibly support trophy hunting is that it (a) adds a large chunk of money into local impoverished economies, and (b) sends a message to the locals that the wild animals have a value *to them* (due to reason a, thus helping to make poaching unpopular). But it still bothers me, and I'm not sure that there aren't better ways to accomplish the same goals.
 

javi

Forager
Nov 4, 2008
131
0
Hampton
I appreciate the conversation in this thread that has allowed the topic to be discussed rationally without it becoming bitterly polarised :approve:
Everybody has an opinion, understanding where someone else is coming from with theirs isn't always widely accepted.

Cheers Toddy - it's precisely for this reason that I like hanging around here! As for wolverines themselves, regardless of their predatory behaviour which I'm sure makes herders/ farmers hate them, you have to admire the fight in them. These guys are seriously tough customers and will take on creatures much bigger than themselves - it made me sad to think of them dwindling because of their habitat disappearing. I know the same is happening to a whole host of other creatures as well but there's something very appealing (to me at least) about these hardcore overgrown weasels :cool:
 

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