Reasons for carrying a knife (in the UK).......

[Goose]

I think he acted fairly and can't see the problem with asking you about the knife. As has been said he didn't do you for it, which may have been overboard, he questioned you and advised you to put it out of sight, no problem there!
I think we should be stopped and questioned more, not less, it is the best way to detect and prevent "real" crime and as I am (generally)law abiding I would feel safer,for myself and my family, if spot checks were carried out more often. I usually carry my opinel in my pocket and my "tools",bushcraft and outdoor kit including my mora, are usually left in my car. I know the laws but I pretty much trust the system in the very unlikely event of a pull, but if I thought I was going to be stopped I would leave my sharps at home (or carry a 100% legal slipjoint) just to save on hassle, anyone up to no good would think the same I would imagine.

As for hiding with a speed gun.......
At least you were stopped, not just policed by camera and post!

 

[WhichDoctor]

This thread has dredged something out of my memory. Wasn't there a new law past October/November time last year that made carrying any knife (even folding ones) illegal. Am I imagining it, or is that true?

 

[Draven]

Well carrying a locking folder, or a folder with a blade longer than three inches, or an assisted opener is illegal I think... is this what you mean?

 

[WhichDoctor]

Well carrying a locking folder, or a folder with a blade longer than three inches, or an assisted opener is illegal I think... is this what you mean?

Know, from what I remember it was something about carrying any knife of any length, any type, locking or folding, illegal to carry. Of cores I mite well have imagined it, or dreamed it, I do that sometimes .

 

[chewie]

Know, from what I remember it was something about carrying any knife of any length, any type, locking or folding, illegal to carry. Of cores I mite well have imagined it, or dreamed it, I do that sometimes .

Ordinary non-locking folding pocket knives with a blade shorter than 3 inches may be carried in a public place without the requirement for justifiable good reason, there has been no change that I am aware of.

 

[Buckshot]

Don't forget there's the offensive weapon bit as well.
That's the one where sub 3 inch nonlockers (normally OK under other rules) can be deemed illegal if they're carried in the 'wrong' place - a pub or football ground is an obvious example.

 

[WhichDoctor]

Ordinary non-locking folding pocket knives with a blade shorter than 3 inches may be carried in a public place without the requirement for justifiable good reason, there has been no change that I am aware of.

Oh well that's odd, I distinctly remember people on the radio talking about it and talking about it with my brother. I must have dreamt it all, I do have bizarrely mundane dreams sometimes .

I even stopped carrying my swiss army knife for a while because of it, but I found so many things I needed it for I started carrying it anyway. So now I don't have to worry .

 

[Goose]

I think the confusion comes from the fact that any knife, or other object come to that, can be classed as an offensive weapon in certain circumstances.
There are three "classes"of knife,sort of.

1) Legal EDC, sub three inch folding non locking knife.so if the cutting edge is less than the length of most disposable lighters it is legal to leave in your pocket in most situations, illegal for example in a school(unless you have a letter on you from the headmaster giving permission) and inadvisable to carry to the pub or football match for example as this could still be classed as a weapon by an awkward bobbie!

2) Most other knives need a reason to be carried, locking knives(of any description), fixed blade knives, come into this category. This means unless you convince the bobby,or his superiors as it goes up the chain, you have a legitimate reason for carrying it, being in your car is classed as carrying it too, you are in trouble!

3) Banned knives. There is a list but is basically flick knives, butterfly knives(balisongs), and disguised knives come into this category. There are a few ways around the law but basically they are totally illegal. They are legal to own( but illegal to sell, buy, show and carry!

Forgetting the banned item list, not really relevant to the carry aspect, IMO if you are carrying something on that list and you get stopped you should be charged with gross stupidity!
Basically a sub 3inch non locking knife in your pocket would mean the police would have to prove it was being carried as a weapon, or illegal intent.
A fixed blade or a lock knife you would have to prove your reason for carrying is legitimate.


Went on a bit more than I meant to, this is my take on the law using info on here and BB, and is how I beleive it to work.

 

[chewie]

An offensive weapon is any article [including any knife] that is made or adapted for use in causing injury, or intended for that use.

In the context of knives, 'made' off-weaps include flick knives. Other examples are martial arts weapons, truncheons, saps etc.

'Adapted' - well it's hard to think of an example of a knife 'adapted' to cause injury. It would be where a knife had been modified to cause injury, the closest exanple being a prison shiv where a blade had been filed at the base so it could be stabbed in to someone then broken off. A better example of an adapted off-weap is a baseball bat with nails in the end.

'Intended' is where an otherwise innocuous item such as a swiss army knife is coupled with intent to use it to cause injury. Evidence of intent may be derived for example from verbal admission ]'it's a rough area so I am protecting myself'], or actions such as threatening someone with it, or standing drunk in the pub waving it about and shouting 'who wants some' etc.

It's all covered in the thread, honest.

 

[chewie]

Basically a sub 3inch non locking knife in your pocket would mean the police would have to prove it was being carried as a weapon, or illegal intent.
A fixed blade or a lock knife you would have to prove your reason for carrying is legitimate.

That is about it, in two lines, for public places.

Private places, it's up to the management.

 

[WhichDoctor]

Thanks for that Goose, very consise :You_Rock_. I could have sworn that a new piece of legislation had been past last year but it doesn't seem to be the case. Very odd .

 

[Osprey]

Hi WhichDoctor. During last year's Knife Amnesty there was a lot of media misinformation about all knives being illegal to carry, and this was trotted out by both senior police officers and politicians. May be this is what you were remembering, but as others here have said it is still legal to carry a sub-three inch slipjoint like a SAK without having to give a reason.
Regards,
Doug.

 

[stephendedwards]

I am sorry and I don't mean to cause any offence but this sounds like tosh to me. " A good reason" is clear to everyone? The whole point of phrasing the law in such a way is to ensure that it is not clear. Otherwise the powers that be would have to cover every eventuality. Ultimately what is a good reason is only determined by the courts, but in practice it falls to the discretion of the officer who happens to have found the article on you.

I carry a non-locking knife under the size limit on me all the time and have not replaced my long lost L'man Wave precisely because the blade locks. But I would not assume that just because I have done nothing wrong that I don't have reason to be concerned.

Lets face it most lawbiding subjects who carry a pocket knife do so not because they have a good reason at any particular moment but because they forsee the possibility of such a moment arising when they will need one.

stephen

This is an often asked question on BritishBlades Jon, so much so that we lock threads that ask it. The reason for that is simple.

What you are asking for, is a universal get out of gail free card, that is none specific to time, place or person. A magic "reason" that you can pull out if the eventuality arises. You are asking for a way to duck the law (that's one of the reasons we close such threads on BB).

The reality is, there simply isnt one (that's the other reason we close such threads).

The legislation is clear "good reason" means just that. That means a task or job that you are doing that requires you to have a knife about your person at that time and place. If you actually have such a tast to do, then you dont need to worry about excuses because you have a reason for having the knife. If you dont have such a task any and all excuses you can come up with will be plainly transparent as an excuse and wont count for anything to either a police officer or a magistrate. In spite of your protests, you will be arrested and convicted of posession of a bladed article, contrary to s139 of the 1988 criminal justice act. Your excuse absolutely will not work, it wont convince anyone. The only thing that will work, is a plainly genuine use for the knife ...and they dont need embelishment, they are plainly genuine.

Bottom line, if you have a fixed blade or lock knife about your person and you dont have a job at hand that demands its use, you are breaking the law and there is nothing you can say that will get you off.

 

[sploing]

This might possibly be throwing petrol on the fire but it's important to remember that if you carry a non s.139 PCA (over 3 inches and/or non-folding blade) when giving your good reason for carrying it or lawful authority the burden of proof on yourself is to civil standards only. meaning you only have to prove that you had a good reason to carry it ON THE BALANCE OF PROBABILITIES whereas any officer trying to prove a s.139 compliant blade was an offensive weapon would have to prove your intent BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT. This does not mean that you will not be arrested since the proving of that intent would be done either from situational inference or more likely, by interview, meaning that you can still be arrested to "allow the prompt and effective investigation of the offence"

 

[Lodian]

To clarify, When i go camping i normally have to walk along a beech were the police are sometimes or walk about a mile on open pavment then another half on a bke path. I carry a 3 inch fold blade but when i get my mora and if im stopped when im in dpms and have my rucksack and say im away camping will that stick as a reason?

 

[JulianWormwood]

Oh well that's odd, I distinctly remember people on the radio talking about it and talking about it with my brother. I must have dreamt it all, I do have bizarrely mundane dreams sometimes .

There was an attempt to ban the sale of "replica" samurai swords (how they're to distinguish them from real samurai swords I don't know) last year by an MP but that fell by the wayside very quickly.

 

[Nagual]

lol This reminds me of the recent coverage of the seventy year old man arrested for carrying an egg with intent. Did it get to court? Of course not, and it's been the object of public laughter and disdain since.

Lets face it, a pro boxer can be done with assault with a deadly weapon if they fight you, no doubt similar charges for martial artists. Don't do anything silly and remain calm in situations and a bit of foresight goes a long way too.

The police are all humans too, it's the few who give the whole a bad name. Most police would rather just giving a stern warning about being daft or stupid than make an arrest. Of course they also have all these lovely 'arrest quotas' to meet hence the egg man, above.

 

[BorderReiver]

The whole of this thread can be boiled down to the simple advice of;

If you don't NEED it don't carry it.A sub 3" non locker will do for most domestic cutting jobs.






If you need a locker or a fixed blade,carry it.

DO NOT try to think up a reason that would allow you to carry just for the sake of it.

What is the point?

 

[Martyn]

I am and I don't mean to cause any offence but this sounds like tosh to me. " A good reason" is clear to everyone? The whole point of phrasing the law in such a way is to ensure that it is not clear. Otherwise the powers that be would have to cover every eventuality. Ultimately what is a good reason is only determined by the courts, but in practice it falls to the discretion of the officer who happens to have found the article on you.

I carry a non-locking knife under the size limit on me all the time and have not replaced my long lost L'man Wave precisely because the blade locks. But I would not assume that just because I have done nothing wrong that I don't have reason to be concerned.

Lets face it most lawbiding subjects who carry a pocket knife do so not because they have a good reason at any particular moment but because they forsee the possibility of such a moment arising when they will need one.

stephen

What's tosh? What's your point?

 

[Martyn]

Mods, just a thought but maybe it's time this thread got put to bed? As a whole new series of members find and read it, there will likely be a whole new series of rants etc...