Primitive Living

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Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
As I understand igloo construction; there are spaces between the blocks....look at one at night with a light within it. Not a chimney, not an entirely airtight construction. It is a micro climate that allows for not only survival but a level of comfort. Again, it must 'breathe'. An igloo entirely covered in snow is a deathtrap.

Toddy
 

Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
Nope.

Made with a cold sink in the bottom with raised sleeping platforms. With only body heat the temperature can sometimes be raised above freezing so the whale oil lamp is only for minimal cooking and light. Were there no chimney the structure would melt. Continual melting and refreezing of the interior makes it very air tight as the ice layer thickens thus the need for the ventilation hole. I think your mummies smoked to much seaweed trying to get a buzz.

A Quinzhee is a very different animal again.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
26,709
1,947
Mercia
You experienced folk should save your breath.

Probably.

There have been too many cases of "suicide by camping" by people who underestimate the complexities and effort of "a simple life". Potentially yet another one this month sadly

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/18/oklahoma-teen-missing-in-remote-ore-terrain/

If my contributions come over as belittling your dreams, they are not, they are though trying to encourage you to try these things one step at a time and to have a backup plan. To live the life of an Iron Age man, with their tools and lifestyle is *probably* a death sentence unless thoroughly well researched with a number of highly experienced people and the same pre-positioned infrastructure and supplies the original people would have. I'd hate to see another idealistic young person become a statistic.

I have no desire to join your forum, but I wish you well - please gain your experience (and I mean hands on experience spanning several years, not reading books or occasional toe dips into the life), before you commit to this.

Red
 

Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
We had a guy found 2 miles from my house the other day. Lost in the woods and a few hundred yards from the road. They figure he was there for 6 years.

Yes the woods are that thick here.
 
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THOaken

Native
Jan 21, 2013
1,299
1
30
England(Scottish Native)
Probably.

There have been too many cases of "suicide by camping" by people who underestimate the complexities and effort of "a simple life". Potentially yet another one this month sadly

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/18/oklahoma-teen-missing-in-remote-ore-terrain/

If my contributions come over as belittling your dreams, they are not, they are though trying to encourage you to try these things one step at a time and to have a backup plan. To live the life of an Iron Age man, with their tools and lifestyle is *probably* a death sentence unless thoroughly well researched with a number of highly experienced people and the same pre-positioned infrastructure and supplies the original people would have. I'd hate to see another idealistic young person become a statistic.

I have no desire to join your forum, but I wish you well - please gain your experience (and I mean hands on experience spanning several years, not reading books or occasional toe dips into the life), before you commit to this.

Red
This is a big misunderstanding, British Red. Understand that I did not mean what I said to be taken as a negative remark at all.

I've been busy, my mind clouded, and now I see how "save your breath" could come across in such a way. I'm grateful for all that you've said in this thread. Everyone's insight is greatly appreciated. I've said many times that in no way am I disregarding what everyone has said. I merely meant to imply that you all have so much to say, that you might take the discussion over to my new forum, but even that could be cast in a negative light and is, indeed, bad form. I hope my intentions are clear. I don't wish to be seen as unprofessional or, worse, ignorant.

My apologies.
 
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John Fenna

Lifetime Member & Maker
Oct 7, 2006
23,106
2,833
66
Pembrokeshire
The smoke rises; it is gently diffused out through the thatch and from under the eaves. Unlike in an igloo the lungs don't end up full of black smoke....well, to be a bit basic....blowing my nose having spent at least eight hours working inside the house all day did not show any black on a white hankie :rolleyes:

The roundhouse does not reach the magic 20 or 21degC; it's not intended to. It's simply shelter and a warm, calm, area out of the vagaries of the weather. The fire is a gentle warmth, it's cooking, it's light 'enough'....as the song says of the peat fire flames, "light for lit, for love, for laughter", not to read by, or do close work by, it's a social warmth.

The smoke is actually a good thing. The build up of soot on the upper timbers and thatch stops moulds and kills insects; it protects, it preserves. It's only the past few generations that have considered smoke a bad thing, and those are generations who lived 'enclosed' lives.

Chimney technology suits modern houses (relative modernity that is); it does not suit a round house. It is a waste of heat and protection and if the fuel is chosen with appropriate care then the smoke has other uses too. It used to be considered medicinal to burn certain plant; as indeed real tobacco, not the horrendously adulterated stuff sold nowadays to the addicted was originally used for. Sweet grass, mugwort, etc., are known even yet as 'hearth herbs'

Living in a roundhouse is an entire mind shift and life style adjustment. It is totally different from living in a cabin too.
There are no draughts, just gently baffled air. It's a micro climate for a people who lived outdoors most of the time. No condensation, no black mould....occasional fungi growing from timbers though :)
It's amazing how fast we adapt and find comfort within one though :D

Mary

When I was at Castell Henlys Iron Age fort doing demos of flint and steel firelighting a couple of weeks ago I was working in the small roundhouse - the forge when the site was being used in the Iron Age (hammer scale etc was found in the floor material, plus a big broken rock that was the anvil).
The day was cold and showery and I had a fire going from about 10am until 5pm. There was no chimney, the roof had recently be re-thatched (at least it had a new layer of wheat-straw over the reed thatch) the door was always open and the walls were solid.
I kept warm, made light to work by, dried out my damp dead grass tinder and could have cooked several meals over the day but the fire used up less than one armful of dry
seasoned oak logs. The only time there was any issue with smoke was while doing the fire lighting with the children when several batches of slightly damp grass tinder produced enough smoke to make conditions uncomfortable if you were standing. Once the grass burned then the smoke rapidly cleared.
I would not mind living in a roundhouse of suitable size.:)
As to igloos - I have slept in a couple, seen many (mainly on TV I admit) but have never seen one with a chimney - and have never needed one in any form of snowhole either, though we did keep a hole made with a ski-pole open to renew the air after we closed the "front door" .. if we did not close the doorway we did not use an air hole. No-one died.
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
Llwyd the Inuit cleaned their homes, of whatever design, that doesn't mean they used hoovers :) Snow and ice scrapes quite effectively. A well kept Inuit home of the past was 'bright' according to their own reports; such as the ones on the website I linked to. From research a few years ago (mostly into Inuit clothing techniques from an archaeological perspective) I can honestly say that that site isn't an anomally.

Cleaning the hearth was a daily thing; I've done it day in day out for years on end. I miss having a fire in the house, but I don't miss the constant cleaning, I don't miss the soot, I don't miss the dirty rain or the blackened buildings.
Much smaller populations in the past and much, much smaller population densities. It's astonishing the things that folks have found to burn for heat, light and cooking.

THOaken wants to discuss 'primitive' lifestyles; I would put forward the argument that they were far from 'primitive' but needed thought and effort, and that both are constant requirements of their lifestyle.
Nowadays we simply switch on for power and are so divorced from the reality of it's creation and application that we are becoming 'primitive' in our understanding of reality.

Toddy
 

THOaken

Native
Jan 21, 2013
1,299
1
30
England(Scottish Native)
THOaken wants to discuss 'primitive' lifestyles; I would put forward the argument that they were far from 'primitive' but needed thought and effort, and that both are constant requirements of their lifestyle.
Nowadays we simply switch on for power and are so divorced from the reality of it's creation and application that we are becoming 'primitive' in our understanding of reality.
Toddy
This is very true, Toddy. An insightful observation.
 

Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
Llwyd the Inuit cleaned their homes, of whatever design, that doesn't mean they used hoovers :) Snow and ice scrapes quite effectively. A well kept Inuit home of the past was 'bright' according to their own reports; such as the ones on the website I linked to. From research a few years ago (mostly into Inuit clothing techniques from an archaeological perspective) I can honestly say that that site isn't an anomally.

They were bright because they often used clear ice for a skylight. As bright as it can be in the arctic in winter. I never mentioned anything about cleaning anyway, just the vent hole without which your igloo does not survive the winter. I think we are past that anyway.
 
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Llwyd

Forager
Jan 6, 2013
243
2
Eastern Canada
It is difficult enough to work with early 21st century tools. Anyone attempting this primitive experiment would be advised to go work on a farm for a year and see if they like it and then multiply the work load by several orders of magnitude.

In about 80 hours with 3-4 guys we can make enough hay for 15 cows and a few horses for our winter with this.
DM12Series_DiscMower_P0040365_642x462.png


It took 10-12 guys the same amount of time when my father used this level of tech.
FC-DC09-boblenz-hay-demo-001.jpg


In my great grandfathers day it still took 10-12 guys 80 hours to do the hay but only for 2-3 cows and 1 horse with this level of tech. Also this was done for other things too such as wheat, oats and barley which we used to combine harvest until it became cheaper to buy feed and flour.
1371.jpg


I have used the scythe to cut hay for one horse and can tell you that it looses its appeal quickly.

I cannot comment on the hours it would take with one of these. I just know I have no wish to live it past a week or so. Your mileage may vary.
1905_74_4%20copy.jpg
 

Mesquite

It is what it is.
Mar 5, 2008
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~Hemel Hempstead~

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
It was the two entrances that the Inuit mentioned that intrigued me. I know of a lady who spent time with an elderly Inuit family and they had a passageway that the dogs were kept in. Previous to that I had been told that the dogs were kept outside.

I suspect that there are as many variations as there are habitat niches and seasonal resources.

I know that the Inuit who lived the Winter in lodges or igloos ended up with blackened lungs; I know that I didn't end up with soot in my nose, though I do when I'm cooking over an open campfire. I know that in a modern centrally heated house, that is mostly painted white, I don't need to paint every year, yet when we had coal fires I most certainly did.
I know that working outdoors I adjust fairly quickly to different temperatures and find centrally heated housing almost suffocating.

It's an interesting topic :)


THOaken; your youtube link is again promoting Oakenwise. Please pay heed. That is now two Mods who have politely shot a warning across your bows.

Toddy
 

Toddy

Mod
Mod
Jan 21, 2005
38,937
4,570
S. Lanarkshire
It is difficult enough to work with early 21st century tools. Anyone attempting this primitive experiment would be advised to go work on a farm for a year and see if they like it and then multiply the work load by several orders of magnitude.


That is such a good point. It really is.

Toddy
 

Ogri the trog

Mod
Mod
Apr 29, 2005
7,182
71
60
Mid Wales UK
Linking to a video on Youtube is not the same as directing people to another forum entirely, Shewie. I accept that it was wrong for me to link to my forum, but I believe I'm free to link a Youtube video.

Linking to a "third party" You tube video is quite acceptable, however, stating that your team's designer has produced it for your website - especially after being told that you are already self-promoting, is very bad form.

You have had more than enough subtle hints, and now you are over-stepping the mark.

Ogri the trog
Forum Moderator
 

Shewie

Mod
Mod
Dec 15, 2005
24,259
24
48
Yorkshire
Linking to a video on Youtube is not the same as directing people to another forum entirely, Shewie. I accept that it was wrong for me to link to my forum, but I believe I'm free to link a Youtube video.

You are indeed free to link to a youtube video, when Toddy asks you to lay off with the self promotion bit you don't go posting links to your site again an hour later.

People will find their way to your site through search engines if they're interested in the subject, I wish you the best of luck with it.
 

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