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Preparedness, do any practise it?

Discussion in 'Bushcraft and survival skills' started by Carcajou Garou, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. TaTanka

    TaTanka Need to contact Admin...

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    I am a prepper. I live in the middle of Tornado country but also in this part of Texas we see massive nontornadic storms and massive heatwaves in the summer and lows below freezing in the winter as well as ice storms so we can lose power basically any time of year. So I keep supplies in the house as well as in my car for everyday situations, such as break down or something. In a massive disaster FEMA will come in and do everything they can and they do the best they can but they can't be called in until the state governor calls them. This was a big problem in Hurricane Katrina, as they didn't get called in soon enough to help with evacuation attempts and such. I tend to believe relying on myself is often my best course of action until I'm thoroughly in over my head. So I will do so as long as I can.

    I keep food stores and water stores, important documents are all scanned and backed up on hard drive and thumb nail drive that's in a fire/water proof lock box. I also keep full first aid kits in the house and cars as well tools and jumper cables and such things in the car. For those just in case scenarios that may come up I prefer have it and not need than needing it and not having it. In general the only thing that ever gets used is the jumper cables but that's alright since the city mandated that cops aren't allowed to carry them anymore I use them quite often.
     
  2. echobelly

    echobelly Member

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    I'm a bit of a prepper. Where I live (South Korea), there is an always present military threat from the North. It is very unlikely that they would attack, but the threat is there. It affects daily life. There are air raid drill/sirens that sound every month and there are always soldiers visible on the streets.

    It certainly feels that any disaster would be a military one as opposed to a natural disaster. So for me, the best option is to keep a BOB with all my important details in, passport, certificates, US dollars/local currency, credit cards, ID, blanket, bottle of water, some food and basic toiletries.
    I would just have to grab the bag, hope for the best and try to make it to the nearest evacuation point.
     
  3. woodtramp

    woodtramp Member

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    It has always been my opinion that plans only work until the first shot is fired and then its completely fluid.....having been on quest for 30 years to outsmart, out prep mother nature and human frailty, a few things have become obvious and sunk into my thick skull....

    Redundancy is a fair weather friend
    All the redundant gear will never be enough
    Redundant plans only work half the time
    Humans are very adaptive but often refuse to adapt out of Ignorance, Stupidity or Laziness
    A positive mind set is a skill to be practiced, it is a craft of the mind and body

    OK enough metaphysical mumbo jumbo.....
     
  4. Rumi

    Rumi New Member

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    I have really enjoyed reading this thread..

    I live off grid so theres little issue with power outages. I have a small (quiet) generator which provides some additional power and when it is used it also charges the batteries. The weakest link in the whole off grid system is the batteries, but as I designed an built the whole system I have an intimate understanding of it all and in a long term resources shortage would be able to revive the batteries if need be. Alot of our lighting is from 1Watt Luxeon LEDs so consumption is low.

    We grow a lot of food (more than we can eat) and also buy co-operatively from a food co-op which means we continuously have a 6-8 week supply in home.

    We live on the edge of a small city in the UK, have no car (bicycles with trailer) so getting around is quite easy. The home is mobile so if need be we can move further away from the city. We have a 500 litre water container and capacity to carry 100ltrs of diesel, multifuel Rayburn which I run on wood, coal and newspaper.

    Are we intentionally prepared? In a way yes and no. We never set out to be so, its just how it has turned out. I practice bushcraft as a hobby and have done so for a long time. Where possible I avoid weapons because they generally attract attention and it is more likely that in times of civil disorder you will be attacked because someone knows you have a weapon and wants it.

    It is however important to be able to defend yourself if need be, and because I practice Urban Bushcraft I find that this sometimes attracts unwanted attention or I find that some of the sort of people who frequent urban wilderness areas are not the sort of people who you want at your campfire. As I have read my way through this thread I have not seen (or I have missed it) any reference to self defense or unarmed combat. Im sure there are a few Bc'ers who are proficient at one or other martial art, but what about the rest of you? What do you do if you knife is stolen and then an attempt is made to use it against you or someone puts a handgun in your back or face replica or not? How do you cope with the adrenalin rush in such a situation, remain calm and disarm them?

    It can take years to learn a martial art to the point of experienced proficiency and even then it is not guaranteed you will be sufficiently trained to disarm a pistol toting kid or take back your much loved knife from a thief. Krav Maga is a self defense system for civilians developed by the Israel Defense Force and tested in a live combat zone. I practice it and on at least 2 occasions it has saved my life and that of a colleague. What is really good about it is that it is a really good work out and keeps you fit and gives you a great deal of self confidence and teaches the streetwise awareness to keep you out of trouble.

    Survival in times when there is a breakdown of civil society is difficult and "fluid", one of the most difficult things to prepare for is stress point. Stress point is the point at which th body releases adrenalin (fight or flight) learn to manage your reactions while under the influence of adrenalin and you can cope with anything..

    One of the best ways to cope with breakdown of civil disorder is co-operatively at neighborhood/community level - theres safety in numbers when we try to survive alone we are likely to fail.
     
  5. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    Now that is certainly a valid point
     
  6. Ray Britton

    Ray Britton Nomad

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    Hi rumi.

    Your post is very good, and contains some good info, and you sound like you have an idyllic lifestyle :).

    As for whether your ability in crav manga would save you at all, well that depends on who is attacking you. If the gun toting youth you describe is attacking you, then yes it probably will work (and it would probably be unlucky for him to actually hit you, even if up close).
    If I were to attack you (just as an example), it would be of no use whatsoever, as I could shoot you at a fairly long range, and you would have no chance to use your art. A friend of mine does crav manga, and was telling me how he could escape from anyone who tried to strangle him. He pointed out how it was done, and I offered him a few suggestions as to why it was nonsense (although, most of CM is very effective against an attacker with NO training). I won't bore you with the reasons that it wouldn't work on this site, but he could see the point.

    I only mention any of this, as you mentions weapons, and suffice to say, anyone with any training would never put any firearm close enough for you to be able to use CM.
    On the other hand, having any martial art gives you a good level of self confidence, and so can frighten off an attacker before they do anything (as I am sure you already know).

    When teaching survival techniques many years back to military students, I would present them with this scenario:

    I would stand next to a volunteer (who knew the lesson perfectly).

    I would point out he had water, and I had sweets.
    He was hungry, and I was thirty.
    I would then ask the students, how we could come to an agreement that helped us both.

    Some students would suggest bartering, or even once, I was asked if I had any friends with some water!

    Just as they were coming up with answers, I would pull my pistol from my pocket and shoot the volunteer in the head (with a blank of course lol)
    The volunteer would drop to the floor 'dead'

    I then smiled and explained (as the students sat open mouthed, as I had done the killing mid sentence without a break), I now have a drink, so wont be thirsty. I have sweets so wont be hungry. This other man is no longer hungry or thirsty, so will not want his drink now! We are both winners.

    As you say in your post, you have plentiful provisions that others may want, and in truth, if they want them bad enough they will just come and take them! Luckily, I feel that civil disorder will never happen in the UK, and so the future still looks rosy.

    The only problem would have been in the event of nuclear war, as it was planned for the military (mostly RAF) to execute needy or ill civilians en masse. This does sound far fetched (the plan was to put one 9mm round behind the right ear,but would have been impracticable in reality, due to the RAF being mostly wiped out in the first wave), but it was (and is) policy, and I bet I am not the only poster on this site who has done or knows of the course (it is famous for being the only MOD course that had no written notes or OHP's/powerpoint...I wonder why lol)
     
  7. wingstoo

    wingstoo Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    There is a huge amount of info about post nuclear attack on the subbrit site

    http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/features/sfs/new_page_1.htm

    Including this one on the feeding.

    http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/features/sfs/file_14.htm

    As mentioned by RB above the plans for dealing with the civilian population were not the best, but were the necessary route, a similar situation was shown in the film "Outbreak" with Dustin Hoffman, the US military call them Daisy cutters and fuel air bombs, basically nothing came out from where they were deployed.

    Wings
     
    #207 wingstoo, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  8. Ray Britton

    Ray Britton Nomad

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    Hi wingstoo

    I've not looked at your links yet, but do know the subbrit site fairly well.
    Although most of the regional control centres in my area have been demolished, one does still exist fairly close to me.
    What always stood out for me was that after an all out attack, the major priority for post attack recovery was not: hospitals, clean water, banking or education, but was to be able to start the taxation system so tax could be collected from any survivors.

    I do not follow the subject of preparedness in any way, and do not have a grab bag for 72 hours use. I do know however, that until recently there was a hardened telephone exchange 500 metres from my house, and in event of all out war (with the Russians) it was a high priority target. It was allocated to be destroyed by spetsnaz using a company based in hides in the Forest of Dean.

    I wonder how many folks are a bit worried about civil break down, but miss the point that for many (including me until recently) the biggest problem would have been the 'other side', who may have knocked on your door (especially if you had a 4 x4) and simply taken it from you.........If you were lucky, they would simply shoot you for your trouble!

    From the little I know (or am going to say), there were approx twenty sleepers in the forest of dean, who kept land rovers fueled, and well maintained, ready for use by the spetsnaz group (along with food and batteries etc).
    I suspect many of them did not know the contempt they were held in by spetsnaz officers, and that once they had handed over their goodies, they would have been murdered on the spot (often by having a six inch nail driven into their forehead).

    Sorry, I digress, but that just popped into my head (I used to be green slime, and all the above is now public domain)

    Edited to add: sorry for more, but one of the funniest things you can ever watch (in a preparedness way) are the 'protect and survive' films. It makes me laugh when they say "after an attack (nuclear war), it may be some time before the shops open"........I sit there thinking "you got paid lots of money to work that out did you?"
     
  9. Ray Britton

    Ray Britton Nomad

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    Wingstoo.

    Just looked at your links briefly. Interesting stuff.

    If of course anyone is into storing gear for 'some event' It might spur you on to know that the RSG's are all run down now, and my local one (for Bristol) is still standing, but not immediately usable, and has no staff allocation.

    There was also a large MAFF store about 6 miles from me (for use after all out war), but this too has now closed, and has become an industrial estate.
    The local bunkers have all been demolished, including the hardened exchange I mentioned above. Interestingly the area left after the removal of the massive underground batteries was so big, it was used as the basis for an underground car park for the flats built on the site! (or, to put it differently, the contractors messed up, and knew they had to knock down the bunker, but had no idea the large batteries were there too, and it was the easiest way round having a large hole to fill lol)
     
  10. Rumi

    Rumi New Member

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    Hi Ray

    You are not wrong in all you say..

    I also agree that its unlikely civil disorder will break down in the uk. this is how we are here, even without government we are generally agreeable people.

    I work in a high risk environmen, and some of my clients have had some or a lot of training and some havent. CM is limited in tghe sense that it is good for the untrained thug in the street or aggressive individual in the workplace. But as you say against trained other is different.

    I was reading your thing about sweets and water and thinking who is going to shoot 1st.. (scary but pragmatic)

    My life ideal? theres lots wrong, but its always a challenge.

    As for long range attacks, no one can do anything there can they.
     
  11. johnboy

    johnboy New Member

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    I wonder what the effect on your volunteers hearing and general facial condition was on your discharge at close range of a blank round? :AR15firin:stretcher:

    But I guess you may have shot them from a distance...
     
  12. UltimateSurvivor

    UltimateSurvivor Tenderfoot

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    I do, absolutely.

    I do alot of game shooting. From Game bird's to Deer stalking when seasons permit. I have 12g's and a .308 remmington on ticket which is rather lovely! I also have an FAC rated Air rifle (Daystate Airwolf).

    I rarely eat meat from super markets. The meat i eat is usually rabbit or wood pigeon. When seasons permit it's pheasant, partridge and woodcock is a delicious treat. I help the local game keeper and under keepers keep their various populations in check, the one i look forward to most is the deer cull. It keeps the freezer stocked for a good few months and is possibly my favourite meat, especially raw, Venison Tartare is sublime and a must for any game lovers.

    With regards to other kit i keep in the house and on my person. I always have a fire steel on me. Wether i'm out at work or relaxing with some wood pigeon shooting, it's always in a pocket-attached to a belt. I still have two brand-new NBC suits with S10's which have 4 spare filter's each, still in their foily's. Lot's of Survival gear in our spare room which the wife hates. This kit ranges from simple BCB survival kit's that the military uses to one artic survival suit, again ex army. I have a huge navigational section. Which consists of compass' and 1:50 thou' maps. Finally i have six day's worth of 24h ration packs. Most minus their chocolate cache. It's one thing i wish i'd never told the wife!:(:p

    Various 100L Long back Bergens and a few Short backs. I have a few other bit's and bob's which go toward the personal load carrying eqpt. Various Stoves ranging from solid fuels to gels. Desert, Artic and Jungle Kit. I never kept my 90's pattern desert boots... What aload of cr*p they were! The soles would quite happily melt if the sand got hot enough. Lot's of full 95 pattern DPM. I love the gortex 95' smocks. Great! UK forces Patrol Medic Kit. Unfortunately well used.

    Various old Army Tent's and some Swedish Lavvu's. I've also got a hooped mountain tent.

    Back to the shooting gear. 2x Night Vision scopes with iluminators (civvi purchases,) various spot lights. Vehicle mounted and hand-held.

    Most, if not all of the kit was built up during my time in the forces. All were being wrote off by the RQMS so i thought rather than some grubby little Army Surplus store get their hands on them, i'll have them instead;).


    With regards to the defence of you property ect. I don't believe that in all cases you are going to be overun if there are more of them than there are of you. You don't have to own fire arms to be able to defend yourself. Most ingredients needed to make HE ( high explosive) can be found in your local super market. It is however always best to leave the fight if possible. If you do have fire arms. Put a decent amount of fire down and then bug out, covering your route as you go.

    If being over run is inevitable, push forward towards them. It's usually the last thing an attacking force is expecting and should only be done if you have some sort of covering fire from another position.

    Anyways, I've waffled for far too long!

    What a great thread.

    Regards.
     
    #212 UltimateSurvivor, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  13. wingstoo

    wingstoo Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    And I wonder who will be answer the call for "Civil disobedience" when the unions call for it?

    News link

    Wi9ngs
     
  14. Rumi

    Rumi New Member

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    Something I didnt add to my post was that I am also what is known as a "guerrilla gardener", what that means is that I have been over the years giving nature and bushcraft a helping hand. There is some evidence that some hunter gatherers do this (the pigmy in Gabon and some Papuan tribes). Its not actually agriculture, because there is no modification of the plants through breeding, all I am doing is ensuring that the plants do get seeded on either through cultivation in plugs and then planting on in the wild or by seed broadcast.

    Im sure most of you have an in depth knowledge of your surrounding area and know places which are secret and perhaps only frequented by you. These are the places I use to develop areas seeded with edibles and medicinals which I harvest. In some cases its important to understand the ecology of the species in some depth. For example Early Purple Orchid requires specific soil type and ph and the presence of fungi with which it has a symbiotic relationship. This orchid is an extreme example but it is also an important source of carbohydrate which can be processed and stored.

    This type of caching has long term implications for any prepared Bc'er and helps to take a really long term view. Personally I think its what we should all be doing.
     
  15. Ray Britton

    Ray Britton Nomad

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    Rumi.
    Your reply had me laughing my head off !

    It was this line that did it:
    "I was reading your thing about sweets and water and thinking who is going to shoot 1st.. (scary but pragmatic)"

    I imagined you wondering if I was going to shoot myself......Because I was feeling generous that day lol. :)

    Johnboy.
    I imagine there was virtually no effect on the volunteers face, or any other part of his body TBH. This was a structured lecture taken in full accordance with H and S regs (if you are keen on that kind of thing).
    So, even ignoring the fact that at the time I was regularly taking part in shooting comps out to 800 metres, so could shoot at a distance of my choosing, I did say I shot the volunteer with a blank round........(Fired from a blank firing Beretta, with top gas ejection, so NO debris would go in the direction of the volunteer!)

    What is it with some folks........Is H & S the new god or something lol! I am just thankful I never re told the story of strangling someone, In case I get asked if I had washed my hands first lol
     
  16. johnboy

    johnboy New Member

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    Did you wash your hands..???
     
  17. Rumi

    Rumi New Member

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    Ray

    Lol.. You know what I meant..

    On the subject of washing your hands - did you wash them after?

    H&S has its place, but not in fieldcraft. Sure we dont want people injuring themselves unnecessarily, but at the same time common sense is not something everyone is blessed with.
     
  18. Ray Britton

    Ray Britton Nomad

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    johnboy....you cheeky monkey! :)

    NO, I didn't wash my hands before or after, so I guess they were very infectous at the time....As the other bloke was dead after I had finished!...Sorry if that is in poor taste, but you did ask.


    What it does show though (and sort of back on topic) is that things like CM that Rumi practices can be very useful when times get tough, and your opponent does not know them too!
     
  19. boisdevie

    boisdevie Forager

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    Interesting thread. My own take is that the best way of being prepared it to be close to the sea with an oceangoing yacht available full of stuff - with caches of food, water etc hidden on small islands. Also have a very long range radar so when it goes pear shaped you go to sea and stay a long way from anyone. If you live in the countryside and are fantastically self sufficient that will be worth nothing when the hordes leave the city. Unless you have lots and lots of guns.
     
  20. malente

    malente Life member

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    My thought exactly. Only I don't have the yacht and the island stack... :(
     
    #220 malente, Sep 14, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2010

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