On Eating Properly...

[santaman2000]

You can not not compare processed sugar (= white sucrose) that is a pure natural sucrose used for a couple of hundred years with the US industry preferred High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Since HFCS was packed into everything from sodas to youghurts, your obesity has skyrocketed. 1970’s.

Sugar ( sucrose) is a fantastic source of energy, and our bodieshave developed enzyme systems to digest it.
Processed (white) or unprocessed ( raw cane syrup) are treated the same by our digestive system.

Sugar is sugar ---- is sugar ---- is sugar, Doesn't matter what type. They're ALL high calorie (empty calories with no other nutritional value) and are universally bad for us. What matters is the total consumption. Any reputable dietician still preaches that, and every snake oil salesman pushing his newest fad product disputes it (and is echoed by the gullible masses). And THAT is what's skyrocketed since the 1970s; consumption. High fructose corn syrup didn't replace it in processed foods for another decade, and even then, it was due to the incredibly lower costs of HFC compared to other forms of sugar.

 

[santaman2000]

Cooking simple food is easy and cheap.
Everything else is just lame excuses.

Agreed. That said, "simple" doesn't equal "healthy." Good fried chicken is simple, but it ain't especially healthy. "Simple" doesn't equal "tasty." Plain baked white meat chicken is both simple and healthy, but it ain't especially good (I don't care how much non-salty and non fat herbs and spices you add)

 

[Robson Valley]

That's exactly my point. For diversity in your diet, find like-minded people willing to barter.
It is a noble concept and it does work in practice. Yet you find idiots convinced that they are getting shorted at every turn.

I built junk-wood book cases that fit inside my freezer so I can see what I'm shopping for!
Buy in bulk. Cook in bulk. Except for power, the capital cost of a deep freeze should pay for itself in less than a year.

 

[santaman2000]

Cheese is a means of stockpiling excess protein. It isn't made for the fat. It isn't made for the carbohydrates.
Those things, or parts thereof, add great richness and complexity to the world's cheeses.....

Yep. Absolutely true. Also absolutely irrelevant. It doesn't matter what they're made for, it only matters that they are indeed high fat and high carb. I completely agree thatthose fats and carbs add wondeful richness. That's what I've been saying all along; that good taste comes with a price to our health.

 

[Janne]

DaveO:
Absolutely.
We have lost the art of co existence, cooperation and the like.

Idividuality, ‘me first’ mentality is the norm , and even tought in schools from an early age.

Santaman: RobsonV can explsin the duffetence in HFCS metabolism vs other sugars.

Empty calories? No, pure energy.

What we need to do in the western societies s to stop adding the large amounts of sugars into food.

 

[santaman2000]

.....Santaman: RobsonV can explsin the duffetence in HFCS metabolism vs other sugars.

Empty calories? No, pure energy.

What we need to do in the western societies s to stop adding the large amounts of sugars into food.

We are restricting sugar comparisons to just the processed sugars" Right? Meaning cane sugar, beet sugar, bottled honey and processed syrups and HFC? Thanks but several dieticians and doctors have already explained to me exactly what I printed: sugar --- is sugar ---- is sugar. And they're all just empty calories. Energy? Yes. So what? Energy should come from more natural sources with other nutritional content.

 

[Robson Valley]

The Central Metabolic Pathway in a human converts a wide variety of different sugars into glucose.
You cannot get around that fact. Two steps later, all that glucose is converted (isomerized) into fructose.
You cannot escape that fact either.
What you get is a smaller variety of simpler molecules which can be processed in bulk with fewer weird steps.

You also assume that all that sugar is oxidized for empty calories. Wrong. All along the line, I'll take
bucketfuls of intermediates as building blocks and build amino acids for proteins.
I'd take more to build oils and lipids and fats and hormones.
Then, depending on energy demand, I will totally trash some to H2O and CO2 for the energy.
Or, I will join bunches of 2C bits and build belly fat for a rainy day.
It never rains enough. Agreed?

 

[santaman2000]

DaveO:
Absolutely.
We have lost the art of co existence, cooperation and the like.

Idividuality, ‘me first’ mentality is the norm , and even tought in schools from an early age.

Santaman: RobsonV can explsin the duffetence in HFCS metabolism vs other sugars.

Empty calories? No, pure energy.

What we need to do in the western societies s to stop adding the large amounts of sugars into food.

The problem I see (maybe we can find a solution) when trying to apply this to the poor would be, when do they have time to help with communal cooking? I think part of the problem they face already is time influenced. Think about it (I've been there before) you work most of the day (like you mentioned for medieval cultures) but today you don't have large families (maybe even live alone in a strange city where you went for work) You get home an hour after dark and you only have an hour to prep your meal, eat it, clean the dishes, shower and get to bed on time. You don't really have time to get to know the neighbors and participate in a group meal (or even plan, much less shop for and prep, a healthy meal) You just open a can of hash or go to the nearest cheap greasy spoon to order a quick meal. Hopefully on the weekend you get a chance to do some shopping and make the kind of healthier and tastier foods that will be good as leftovers for a couple of days.

 

[santaman2000]

The Central Metabolic Pathway in a human converts a wide variety of different sugars into glucose.
You cannot get around that fact. Two steps later, all that glucose is converted (isomerized) into fructose.
You cannot escape that fact either.
What you get is a smaller variety of simpler molecules which can be processed in bulk with fewer weird steps.

You also assume that all that sugar is oxidized for empty calories. Wrong. All along the line, I'll take
bucketfuls of intermediates as building blocks and build amino acids for proteins.
I'd take more to build oils and lipids and fats and hormones.
Then, depending on energy demand, I will totally trash some to H2O and CO2 for the energy.
Or, I will join bunches of 2C bits and build belly fat for a rainy day.
It never rains enough. Agreed?

By "empty" calories I mean those processed sugars add nothing other than the sugar itself. If you eat an apple (or any other food) yes, you break down the apples sugar just the same as you would the powdered table sugar; BUT! you also take in the vitamins and minerals it contains. There's no way around that. If you eat table sugar it's empty calories by definition (it contains absolutely nothing else to take in; and THAT is the very definition of "empty calories" from EVERY single doctor and registered dietician I've seen in the last 40 some years) and there's no way around that either.

No disrespect meant, but when given a choice between your explanations of nutrition and those from doctors and licensed nutrition professionals, I have to go with the pros.

 

[santaman2000]

All the arguing aside I think we all agree we simply eat too much sugar (or drink it in sugary drinks) and exercise far too little. I think we also all agree it's partly because sugar tastes good.

Ironically sugar was one of the easier things for me to give up in my drinks. I now drink my coffee black and my iced tea likewise usually and I've switched to diet sodas. Sadly i still have an enormous sweet tooth for deserts and candies and the like.

Which brings me back to a calorie dense food from those olden times that Janne touted. Fruitcake! Another one of my weaknesses.

 

[Janne]

Think this way when you eat fruit cake:
It contains fibers, complex carbohydrates and minerals and other nutrients from the dried fruit.

We need to have a bit of joy and fun in life!

Absolutely, eating fruit is superior.

Yesterday when we went shopping food ( supermarket) wife was thirsty, so we bought a small bottle of some overprised, organic bla bla bla tea flavoured with Forest Fruit juice.

It was nice and refreshing. Checked, total sugars 3 grams per 100 ml.

The sugar tax that is now being introduced in Europe will hoprfully mean they add less sugar, or that the consumer chooses the cheaper, less sugary drinks.

 

[Robson Valley]

"Pros" step in their dogma, a lot of the time. I taught university biochemistry classes for more than 30 years. I am a real Pro.
You still assume that ALL of the sugar in food becomes empty calories. Wrong. Try a hot label like 14C-glucose and see where it goes.

I think processed foods are badly over-sugared. No argument. Habit forming. I'm one of the black coffee crowd, too.
The European Sugar Tax? They will push back for 6 weeks and then roll over with the higher prices.

 

[Hammock Hamster]

"
The European Sugar Tax? They will push back for 6 weeks and then roll over with the higher prices.

Sadly I suspect this will be all too true! Let’s be honest a sugar tax was never about people’s health and all about clawing in even more cash for no good reason.
If that had been the case the “tax” could have just as easily been a limit on the amount of sugar allowed in particular types of products.


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[Broch]

I'd far prefer to have sugar in food than a bunch of chemicals. I can't consume most artificial sweeteners; they give me unbearable indigestion (yes, I know the EU and the US say that Aspartame is safe). Try finding a fruit drink in the UK without sweeteners in!

 

[Hammock Hamster]

I'd far prefer to have sugar in food than a bunch of chemicals. I can't consume most artificial sweeteners; they give me unbearable indigestion (yes, I know the EU and the US say that Aspartame is safe). Try finding a fruit drink in the UK without sweeteners in!

Apart from the odd glass or can (maybe once a month or so) I haven't drunk fizzy drinks for nearly 20 years.

Supposedly sugar free orange squash and water are my staples and I can always feel the difference when I have had a can of pop.

I still use sugar in coffee the same as I use salt/butter etc... in cooking but try to steer clear of as much artificial/processed stuff as I can.

In the same vain I have the odd McDonalds every few months and whilst I enjoy it at the time I tend to crash about an hour later and generally feel a bit carp and lethargic - not that I ever learn my lesson!

I'm definitely not the worlds healthiest eater but like all these things I think the key is balance.
The odd bit of fast food, choccy bar or can of pop are fine imo provided they aren't the main part of my diet which sort of swings it back round to the OP.
There are an abundance of options for convenience at low prices that are particularly unhealthy, until people are educated (and even more so willing) to pick healthier options I fear we won't see any change.

Let's be honest there is a lot of money involved with the food and drink industry and much like the "sugar tax" people will simply keep buying what they know if it's available.
Someone else made the reference to cigarettes which are now extortionate yet people still buy them.
Much simpler to just remove them from the market but then there is suddenly a huge loss in tax revenue and a mass of people going through withdrawal - much like I imagine the removal of sugar would cause.


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[Toddy]

I'd far prefer to have sugar in food than a bunch of chemicals. I can't consume most artificial sweeteners; they give me unbearable indigestion (yes, I know the EU and the US say that Aspartame is safe). Try finding a fruit drink in the UK without sweeteners in!

Ribena original and the Polish raspberry, strawberry and cherry equivalents.
I detest the artificial sweeteners, and am firmly of the opinion that encouraging children to consume them is an evil thing.

M

 

[Hammock Hamster]

Ribena original and the Polish raspberry, strawberry and cherry equivalents.
I detest the artificial sweeteners, and am firmly of the opinion that encouraging children to consume them is an evil thing.

M

Hi Mary, interestingly I have always favoured Robinsons as it has been around since my youth and I suppose is at least a better option than pop.
I always opt for the "no added sugar" version which is less than 1% sugar but a quick check of the label clearly shows sweeteners (aspartame) in the ingredients.
I'm sure this meets the criteria so as not to be false advertising but cheeky none the less.


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[Toddy]

If you can find the Robinson's that doesn't come labelled "No Added Sugar", then yes, it's very good. Try finding it now though
It's all fake sweeteners, and they are not without issues.

For instance...

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/885945

 

[daveO]

If you can find the Robinson's that doesn't come labelled "No Added Sugar", then yes, it's very good. Try finding it now though
It's all fake sweeteners, and they are not without issues.

For instance...

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/885945

I bought this one the other day. "sweeted from natural sources". Apparently that isn't as natural as it sounds though.

https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/produ...-lime-mint-fruit-cordial/861130-633650-633651

 

[daveO]

The problem I see (maybe we can find a solution) when trying to apply this to the poor would be, when do they have time to help with communal cooking? I think part of the problem they face already is time influenced. Think about it (I've been there before) you work most of the day (like you mentioned for medieval cultures) but today you don't have large families (maybe even live alone in a strange city where you went for work) You get home an hour after dark and you only have an hour to prep your meal, eat it, clean the dishes, shower and get to bed on time. You don't really have time to get to know the neighbors and participate in a group meal (or even plan, much less shop for and prep, a healthy meal) You just open a can of hash or go to the nearest cheap greasy spoon to order a quick meal. Hopefully on the weekend you get a chance to do some shopping and make the kind of healthier and tastier foods that will be good as leftovers for a couple of days.

Time is an odd one though. If you save money by eating cheaply then technically you can work less hours (in theory). As you say as well, weekends count for a lot if you can get shopping and food prep for the week sorted. Sadly our own time isn't very valuable as a rule so it is usually better to work and earn money than spend our leisure time trying to live cheaply. It would be great if we could all spend 8 hours in work, 8 hours at home and 8 hours asleep but the reality of life doesn't work that well.