On Eating Properly...

[Tengu]

Bit of a knee-jerk article in local rag. I wont go into the boring details but apparently two districts in town, one middle class, and the other, shall we say, a bit rougher, have a life expectancy for males 8 years difference.

Cue Whiny response from local MP How this should not happen.

Notice article has no helpful words in, like, TOBACCO, or ALCOHOL, or even simple ones like DRUGS...(Of course the poor folk in town have no money to go buy these products, have they?)

(now you know why I use terms like Knee jerk)

One sugestion is poor nutrition.

My question to you...Is healthy eating cheaper than unhealthy eating...or more expensive?

What do you think? Because I have heard the lack of money excuse brought up several times in regards to not eating well.

 

[Toddy]

I believe that one can eat very well while poor....if one can cook, and has or will spend the time to do so.
I think it'd be a simpler diet, less sugar, no weird preservatives or fake sugars, less off the shelf variety, heavier maybe on simple carbs like oats and potatoes, but still healthier than a lot manage nowadays. Take advantage of gluts, learn to 'can', make preserved veg and fruits when they're at their best and cheapest, sprout seeds and grow simple saladings, love the brassicas that will give greenery even in the depths of winter, etc.,

M

 

[Broch]

I know I was a lot healthier when I couldn't afford the excesses (food and booze) that I consume these days. Taking the empty bottles back to get enough money to buy a bag of chips that we would share is a fond memory

Seriously though, articles like that have no meaning unless they are backed up with research that shows the lifestyle (rather than the location) of the people.

 

[Macaroon]

I think what Toddy says is on the money; good food is as cheap, if not cheaper than it's ever been. I can, and do, cook a good, healthy and appetising meal on the table every night for an average of £3 a head. I cook meat,
good quality meat, and fish, I have a few kinds of cheese here all the time, I eat free range eggs of the best quality and try to keep somewhere around 80 to 85 per cent of my intake as plant sourced food. I have people to eat a few times a week and nobody seems to go away less than happy and well fed.

I rarely spend more than an hour in the kitchen, and that's baking good bread, cooking daily meals and all the cleaning up that goes with it. I go to town twice a week to shop and I generally know exactly where the supplies I need will be. It's really easy, not at all the faff it would seem from reading this; I did exactly the same when I was working flat out, it's a mind set, that's all.

I hear people banging on about a decent loaf being extortionate at £3 for good artisan bread whilst drinking a pint of beer that cost £4, and then going outside to smoke a ciggy from a pack that's cost them up to £12.
Nothing wrong with folk having their pleasures after working hard, as in most things you spend your income on what you decide is important to you, but the importance of good food seems to be lost on many.

You are what you eat, and all that. Why would somebody who spends a lot of time and money buying and using the best lubricants and fuels for their vehicle then fill themselves full of cheap carp and then moan that good food is too dear? Sure beats me

 

[daveO]

Seriously though, articles like that have no meaning unless they are backed up with research that shows the lifestyle (rather than the location) of the people.

I agree but also wonder how useful that research would be. It's a bit hard to record someone's age of death and then pigeon hole them into a certain group even with their whole life history to refer to. Maybe they were born into a poor family and did well for themselves later in life, maybe they were rich but had a lot of vices, maybe they had no money but had an alotment and grew all their own food but still died young due to other causes. Does drinking an entire bottle of chilled Chablis every night while listening to classical music make you any better than someone eating junk food while watching X-factor.

I live in a very deprived town and I can eat very healthily cheaply here because there's usually a lot of fresh food in the reduced sections of the supermarkets. That probably tells you a lot.

To eat really cheaply though you do need to spend money and have space to grow things for yourself. You need to buy in bulk and have the equipment to process and store the food. You need to buy a chest freezer and have space in your house to keep all this stuff. People stuck in flats and small starter homes aren't exactly given the opportunity to be able to do this.

 

[Janne]

So many factors decide the average lifespan, far more than just nutrition.
Genetics for a start.

If possible to eat well and nutritious on a budget?
Absolutely. Veg, grains, fruit are cheap.
Ready meals (less healthy) are more expensive than raw ingredients.

 

[Janne]

Tengu, could you provide a link?

 

[Fadcode]

There is usually an ulterior motive when these surveys are carried out, and it is important to find out that reason in order to understand the findings , it could be that someone is intending to open a fruit and veg shop and is building a case in case they get refused planning permission,(cynical), we had a survey done recently which found that on one of the main roads into St Austell the air pollution because of the traffic was so high, that the Council came up with a scheme to buy all the houses knock them down and re-locate all the people to a safer area.....they said this was cheaper than building a ring road, .. however the motion was dismissed in a Council meeting, so what did the council do, They gave planning permission for a new Aldi to be built, and another 198 houses in the spot they had previously said was polluted by traffic, now the only motive in this I can see is the development land would have been seriously devalued, I am left wandering who gained from this.

 

[Tengu]

Janne, I will see what I can do, very busy right now.

Fadcode, that is crazy, if houses are to be condemned for road pollution, there would be a very serious housing shortage in this country...

Are you sure its not just plain old Cornish pollution?

 

[KenThis]

Personally I think it's more complicated than 'laziness' or 'expensive food' which stops some from eating well cheaply.

Education/knowledge plays a big part.
Advertising especially that targeted at children.
The addictiveness of high salt/fat/sugar in processed food.
Stress.
Time poverty.
Nurture- diet growing up.
Etc.

A thought experiment as an example.
If your parents were wealthier then you probably ate well at home, with lots of variety.
One of your parents perhaps didn't need to work so maybe had more time to cook so you naturally learned more.
You probably went to a better school with better teachers and similar peers.
You probably had healthier home made lunch.
You probably did on average better academically and learned more about nutrition.
You probably went to University with like minded people and again learned more.
You probably have a job that pays better and a spouse who's similar to yourself.
You probably can afford better quality lunches.
You probably have more money on average so a bigger house, bigger kitchen, a bread maker etc., more freezer/storage space.
You are probably financially secure so generally have less stress and don't 'binge' to 'cope'
You can probably afford a more varied food shop, with 'higher' quality produce.
You can probably afford to have one parent stay at home and thus repeat the cycle.

Compare to the potential opposite.
Poorer parents, who had less money, time and experience.
Children had less variety, ate poorer diet, high in salt/sugar etc.
More reliant on less nutritious school meals (historically).
Less good job, work canteen, lunches less nutritious.
Spouse similar to yourself.
Less money, smaller house/kitchen, fewer and smaller appliances, less storage space.
Less financially secure, more stress, more binging.
Less money for food, less varied, less able to waste food, buying food children will eat.
Etc.

What I'm trying to say is that being 'poor' is not in and of itself a bar to eating well, but that being 'poorer' throws up more difficulties in having a good diet compared to being well off.

On a side note I have some experience of quantitative genetics that looks to see the potential effects of particular genes on health. A lot of similar problems arise in doing that research as to the research the OP mentions. When looking at large groups of people, lots of variables confound each other, trying to pick out the effects of just one variable becomes almost impossible as it becomes too difficult to allow for other variables that co occur. Think correlation rather than true causation.
I'm not sure I'm explaining it well, but the environmental 'noise', mean the population sizes and statistical analyses become unwieldy, and any 'effects' if they can be seen at all are often very small with large confidence intervals/variation. Conclusions can therefore mean little more than obvious and anecdotal...

 

[Robson Valley]

Buy a freezer. Learn to live with it in the lounge, if you have to.
Bulk food purchases save the price of the freezer (financial fact) and you can barter for other food.
Learn to cook. Learn to bake All the things they failed to teach you in school. You know exactly what's in your food.
Just for myself, I cook for 6 people, at least. Still the same clean-up and many frozen meals for me.

I'm old. I'm acutely aware of how hard it is for old singles to get enthusiastic about some culinary triumph.
My income isn't 1/3 of what I made when I was working. I eat better now by many a mile.

I go on cooking "binges" Big meals, many servings, for maybe 10 days. Then I have a month or more
of extra meals to reheat. Make 6-8 servings each of 10-15 favorites. You do the math.
I am the Salvador Dali of the mince/ground beef/bison/pork/lamb cooks.

 

[Janne]

Expensive food vs cheap food?
Like Goji( dried under questionable hygienics) berries compared with Raspberries (frozen) ?
Like a bowl of Organic, handpicked Canadian Wild Rice vs Fullgrain (brown) rice, Uncle Bens /Lidl/
?

 

[Robson Valley]

Can't be too hard to do the math.
Look at meat prices, cut for cut. Look at a "package" meat deal.

This afternoon, I'm buying 12# steaks, 12# roasts, 5# stew meat, 5# stirfry, 16# burger for $300.00.
That's $6.00/lb organic ranch beef cut, wrapped, labelled and frozen. On sale besides.

In the local grocery store, One cut at a time, I'd be seeing $450.00 for the same list.
Next, I've got a barter deal set to go for a couple of good meat chickens.

 

[oldtimer]

My younger son who knows a lot about food, nutrition and cooking once worked with recovering drug addicts and newly -released prisoners. He found a startling lack of knowledge amongst his clients about how to select buy and prepare nutritious and healthy food and ran courses for them in basic cooking.

There is a chicken and egg scenario at work here in that the disadvantaged lack basic skills and need help through targeted education to break the pattern. It is not just a matter of the price of commodities. We can all help with this.

As Dickens said, although both undesirable, ignorance is more to be feared than want.

 

[Janne]

The problem is teaching people to go from a lazy ( bunging a pizza or ready meal in the micro and 3 cans of Carling in front of the TV) ) existence to buying a cook book, reading it, planning meals, shopping for food, cooking it, cleaning up after yourself.......

I am not mentioning drug addicts, but the vast majority of criminals have a substandard IQ and choose the 'easy' way out, doing crime, doing time, instead of honest work.

Nothing new there, already the Romans had to supply cheap bread and entertainment........

 

[Tengu]

I learned about good nutrition at school, - I assume that its still taught today.

But some people have bad habits.

My Dad is a great cook, and eats very carefully. He still gets through to what is my mind a lot of bread and jam, -neither nourishing or interesting.

The idea that healthy eating is costly is something I have heard from several people...(Now eating from a health food shop...)

Its a very dangerous idea.

(But as I said I suspect the health problems in this area are caused by matters other than eating...)

 

[Fadcode]

Janne, I will see what I can do, very busy right now.

Fadcode, that is crazy, if houses are to be condemned for road pollution, there would be a very serious housing shortage in this country...

Are you sure its not just plain old Cornish pollution?

Here is the Link to the article about the pollution, and the only Cornish pollution down here is corruption.
http://www.staustellvoice.co.uk/news/73/article/6177/

 

[Robson Valley]

Absolutely agree with the learning: an understanding of the basics of food and cooking is key.
The recipes are down the track with the shopping.

Ever so slowly, write your own cookbook. No scraps of paper.
All the "good stuff" that you have learned to make that you like.

Strange the motivation. I needed scratch, home-made pizza. Sauce and crust and toppings. I learned to do that.
All the breads and pies came later. Nobody bakes for me. Had to figure it out.

 

[Fadcode]

Janne, I will see what I can do, very busy right now.

Fadcode, that is crazy, if houses are to be condemned for road pollution, there would be a very serious housing shortage in this country...

Are you sure its not just plain old Cornish pollution?

here is the article from the local rag, about the Councils views on Pollution,


http://www.staustellvoice.co.uk/news/73/article/6177/

sorry double post, one for the long living rich, and one for the poor.

 

[Fadcode]

When I was young, just after the war,(the second, not the first), I remember we were given, Malt, Orange Juice, and free milk at school, all free from the NHS, and basically if you were poor this helped to keep the youngsters fit, remembering in them days there was a lot of illnesses linked to bad nutrition, rickets, vitamin deficiencies, as well as polio, etc etc, the only thing there wasn't a lot of in them days amongst the poor was obesity, now we never ate fancy foods, even chicken was quite rare, but the Mothers were able to make a nutritious meal out of anything, and out of cuts of meat you would not think of eating now, tripe, Pigs feet, ( even though these are still eaten by some these days)
Nowadays its all fast food because the Mothers(and Fathers) have got no idea of how to cook,the kids don't eat fruit, don't get free milk anymore (thank you Maggie), it makes you wander what will happen when the kids of today progress to become parents, you only have to look at the growth in fast food outlets, coffee shops etc, to see where we are heading.