Newbies

[wingstoo]

Hi Admin, and others...

Would it not be a good idea to have a newbies section, where they can get the feel of the site, where they can ask questions to their hearts content without causing offence to anyone. My thought is that they can only start new threads in that area only...and when they have progressed in their skill on using the system they can start posting new threads in the other forums, they can however add to posts in the other forums...Just an idea...

LS

 

[British Red]

Thats a fantastic idea LS - its always difficult to move into a new "community" and can seem quite intimidating. A "safe" area where people can ask questions (the answers to which may be obvious and irritating to more experienced people) and understand forum etiquette without offense would be a real plus - have a rep point!

Red

 

[ScottC]

I think we should be trying to integrate new members into the community as they arrive rather than isolating them to one area and labelling them. Perhaps instead after registration they will be redirected to a FAQ thread with answers to common questions put by new members such as what is "rep", what does all those commonly used acronym's mean (like SWMBO, BCUK etc), how do I make a post. etc.

 

[wingstoo]

I think we should be trying to integrate new members into the community as they arrive rather than isolating them to one area and labelling them.

Hi Scott,

Not the intention to "isolate" if you read again what I put you will see that they can add too existing threads but cannot start new threads in the main areas, only in the "Newbies section".

Then after a while they can start posting new threads in the other areas.

LS

 

[JonnyP]

Not sure on this............I think its potentially a good idea and it needs talking about.
I remember when I first joined up I wanted to know about the bow drill, I wanted to talk with people about it, I didn't like it when someone would put "click here" to take me to another thread on it, I wanted to ask my own questions about it, and I will always remember Leon1's patience with me, putting me in the right direction. He must of heard that question so many times before.
Anyway I am now quite profficient at it (no expert though) and I am in a position where I can give advise on it and I see that as my duty now, teaching others where I can :borgsmile
These newbies want to ask their questions and not be just shown old threads, its all new and exciting to them, and I think we should be a bit tollarent to them.
Saying that, I know exactly where you are comming from LS, esp with your new signature, we want to carry on with our learning and all we see is, which knife should I get, etc. You have raised a good point though, lets see what the others think.................Jon

 

[British Red]

Jon,

I'm certain LS's point was exactly the same as yours!

We newbies (I count myself as having a lot to learn) are eager to engage in a discussion part of the forum and not be told to "use the search button". We can all understand to some that this, basic, knowledge is "old news" but, as you say, the likes of Leon-1 are endless in their patience and advice and having a specific question answered and being able to follow up with "yes, but what does the red button do?" is fantastically helpful. Since this clearly is irritating to some members a "kindergarden forum" could be ignored by those studying Phd and us 'O' level students can discuss real basics that have been discussed before

Red

 

[Toddy]

I agree with Jon on this one. We were *all* newbies once upon a time, and it was discouraging to simply be pointed towards an old thread that one had not seen develop.
Mostly the forum, even though the archives are full of good information, is an on-going conversation, and it's an excellent way of learning. It helps keep it fresh too when new folks join in the threads.
I know that some may come with very little knowledge but bags of enthusiasm, but others who join have just got *so* much to share.

An explanation of how the forum works is always helpful though

Cheers,
Toddy

 

[wingstoo]

Not sure on this............I think its potentially a good idea and it needs talking about.
I remember when I first joined up I wanted to know about the bow drill, I wanted to talk with people about it, I didn't like it when someone would put "click here" to take me to another thread on it, I wanted to ask my own questions about it, and I will always remember Leon1's patience with me, putting me in the right direction. He must of heard that question so many times before.
Anyway I am now quite profficient at it (no expert though) and I am in a position where I can give advise on it and I see that as my duty now, teaching others where I can :borgsmile
These newbies want to ask their questions and not be just shown old threads, its all new and exciting to them, and I think we should be a bit tollarent to them.
Saying that, I know exactly where you are comming from LS, esp with your new signature, we want to carry on with our learning and all we see is, which knife should I get, etc. You have raised a good point though, lets see what the others think.................Jon

Hi Jon,

As you say "it needs talking about"...I would hope that the "Oldies" will be happy to go into the "Newbies" area and help them through to the other side, the ones who have the patience to write the answer for the 1000th time rather than spending their time going through the archives and just posting a link, British Red is a very patient and knowledge sharing person and I am sure there are a lot more like him around, I like making things and doing things, and have been known to be controversial with some of my threads (for which I have been crucified), Lets make these "Newbies" especially the young ones welcome and let them merge seamlessly into the mainstream through help and guidance.

LS

 

[ScottC]

How would you measure this though, by how long they have been a member or their amount of posts? I imagine if a member has been here since the site began but rarely posts they might get a bit frustrated at being restricted to only one area.

What if for example someone had a burning question but they could only ask it in this one section, if they got a really helpful answer on say making a bowdrill then if someone else came along later looking for that sort of information they would not find it in the relevant forum so may miss it entirely.

Another idea would be to make a sticky FAQ thread in some of the forums with common questions relating to that subject. i.e. a FAQ in the Edged Tools section, one in the Kit Section and one in Bushcraft Chatter as these appear to be the most popular and repetitive areas. If a question isn't answered then they could ask it on the sticky and then it could be added with the answer to the main post.

Each of these forums could even have a sub-forum link (like the one to britishblades.com) to the FAQ so they are easy to find and access.

 

[wingstoo]

How would you measure this though, by how long they have been a member or their amount of posts? I imagine if a member has been here since the site began but rarely posts they might get a bit frustrated at being restricted to only one area.

What if for example someone had a burning question but they could only ask it in this one section, if they got a really helpful answer on say making a bowdrill then if someone else came along later looking for that sort of information they would not find it in the relevant forum so may miss it entirely.

Another idea would be to make a sticky FAQ thread in some of the forums with common questions relating to that subject. i.e. a FAQ in the Edged Tools section, one in the Kit Section and one in Bushcraft Chatter as these appear to be the most popular and repetitive areas. If a question isn't answered then they could ask it on the sticky and then it could be added with the answer to the main post.

Each of these forums could even have a sub-forum link (like the one to britishblades.com) to the FAQ so they are easy to find and access.

Hi Folks,

A "newbie" can join in and post on an existing thread, but cannot start a new thread apart from in the "Newbie" area. However, an "Oldie" can post in all threads including the "Newbie" area.

Does this make my thinking any less foggy?

LS

 

[Wayne]

LS its not often I find myself agreeing with you, I can understand your idea that new members can add to threads and not propose new threads its interesting. I have been a member for a while and do find some of the repeats take up a lot of space and time. However I feel it is our duty to help and guide those like Leon b starting out. I know i have benefited from the support and guidance of many people throughout my career in the outdoors.

i remember one member taking me out in the rain to find a willow to make a bow drill set. He didnt need to offer guidance to me but went out of his way to help. Let us not become elitist.

BCUK is changing it is up to us the membership to guide that direction to see it build and become a fully inclusive resource for all.

 

[Ogri the trog]

Hmmm interesting thread guys,
I remember when I first joined BCUK, it was like being a kid in a sweet shop, bursting with questions that I wanted answers to right away. As an (ahem) older member, and having belonged to a few other forums, I knew to use the search and read a whole lot before posting myself - though it dodn't stop my asking dumb questions at any time.
It is refreshing to see the enthusiasm with which some newbies approach the subject and I'm not sure that anything shoud be done to curb this other than gentle guidance towards the search button and time to read some of the many posts on similar subjects.
Personally I don't mind answering repeated questions as that is what you would see if you were running courses, seeing groups come and go throughout the season. To me though, the manner in which those questions are posed goes a long way in dictating the mood of the answer which they are likely to recieve. Polite and concise will always get a more thourough explanation than endless ranting and demands to know the ins and outs of everything.

This is well worth long discussion though I'm not convinced that we should do anything different to what we do now.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[Goose]

Why block people from asking questions anywhere?
A newbie section seems a good idea, but what is a newbie?
Someone who has been bushcrafting for years and only recently come online or fund BCUK?
Someone who is new to bushcraft but has been using computers and forums for years?
Someone who is younger than some of us?
There are lots of repeat questions and threads, but the answer to a question asked now may get a different answer to the same question asked a year ago. This give us all a new way to look at things, and a new outlook. There seems to have been pet subjects over time, when I first joined there where lots of questions and ideas about charcloth but that seems to have died a little, maybe because most users have settled on a way of making there own, but a couple of weeks ago I heard of a new method, we are all still learning.
I learn more by getting asked questions by my kids and the scouts I work with and working out or finding out the answer to their questions, rather than doing the really clever thing and working out the questions for myself!
Remember that forum newbies might be more experienced bushcrafters than any body on here, if Mr Kochanski or Mr Mears signed on tomorrow(if not already here ) would I be considered "better" than them because I have been using the forum longer?

Maybe have a newbie forum that is a safe haven for silly questions that may have been asked lots of times before, but don't make it compulsary, I can ask some silly questions there too!

 

[BOD]

Well, it is called a "Community" and like any community physical or virtual that means interaction beween the expereinced and the naieve, siily questions and smart answers (and v.v).

I think we should be ready to put up with distractions and annoyances and even the occassional conflicts and personality clashes without which there will be no bushcraft community. Even lurkers and loners are part of the community in that they receive something from their participation as part of an audience if not their contribution

You guys have the benefit of going to meets and moots and to further that community spirit.

I wonder what the effect of regulating newbies might be in terms of them making the effort to attend these things?

 

[wingstoo]

Hi Folks,


I am seeing and hearing some reasonable points, but it seems to me that very few are actually reading and understanding some of the points that have been made.

1), A "newbie" can join in on any thread, If the newbie has found an old thread in the vast backlog of subjects then they can add to it which will make it active again.

2), A "newbie" cannot start a NEW thread outside of the "newbie" area.

3) A "newbie" can ask questions relating to an existing thread anywhere on the board.

I have heard the word "community" in a post...In a community if someone asks for direction or help do you say "go to the Library and look it up" or do we look at the map and then say "go buy yourself map no 123 and look for yourself" then go away...I dont think so...does a teacher say to a pupil, I have been asked that question before last year, why not read one of last years students if you can look in his book...

I may add to this later, if I really have to...

LS

 

[scanker]

I don't really like the term "newbie". It's an Americanism for one thing, but that's a different matter. I don't like the idea of segregating old and new and forming two camps. I think the issue of when a newbie becomes an oldie needs to be addressed. If it comes down to post count, will that not just increase the number of spam posts in order to get to a target? If it's on time here, will that not encourage them to sit in silence until they're allowed to ask a question of their own? It might put people off. I, like a lot of people I guess, lurked for quite a time before I actually joined up and said hello. I suppose that lurking was my "newbie" period.

Like Ogri, I'm familiar with forums and am a member of a few others, so I knew very well how to use the search so (hopefully) I was asking relevant questions at the time. Unlike others it seems, I find it helpful to be pointed to existing information and don't really comprehend the "I want to ask my own questions" bit. If it's the same question, it's the same question.

I don't like seeing the same questions asked again and again when the answer's already there if you looked. In an ideal world, my preference in that case would be for a polite and helpful (emphasis on those words, not "Use the search, noob!!!1111") pointer to a relevant thread. That way the existing thread can be expanded on and all of the information remains in one place and is easier to find.

I think an FAQs would help, where the acronyms are explained and the questions that come up time and again (underpants, that sort of thing) are answered. After all that though, we need to bear in mind this is a forum for discussion and not a bushcraft encyclopedia with the topics as the index!

That's what I think anyway.

 

[bogflogger]

This might be a long term solution, to the repeated questions on the same subjects.

How about some Photo Articles on the most frequent subjects, kept "Sticky" and "Locked" so that they do not turn into huge rambling threads.

New members could then be directed to the appropriate article and a (seperate) thread where they could ask any questions about that subject.

I think that this would be a more interesting way for new members to find out about things, rather than being directed to an 18 month old thread on the same subject.

My own feeling is that new members should be encouraged to participate as much as possible on the boards, not given the equivalent of a "Weary Groan" by older and/or more experienced "Experts."

We were all beginners once!

BTW: I'm glad to see that I am not the only person that hates the term "Newbie".

 

[British Red]

Interesting topic this <and a civilised debate too>. In my head, whilst I understand the "not this old chestnut" feeling some people must get, to me, the purpose of a forum is to "interact" with other like minded people and not as a reference work. Therefore, as Hoodoo pointed out once, its inevitable that certain threads will come up again and again. I'm not too stressed about that - the fun is in the chat and the inclusive feeling of discussion. If its not like that, I think that, after a few years, all that new members will be able to do is read for at least a year before finding a "genuinely new" question to ask.

The problem is, if we don't agree about that, new members will get "flogged" as it was recently described and that is equally off putting (hence, I think, LSs idea of a "safe zone" where the etiquette would be that its fine to ask "silly" questions - even if they've been asked before).

Many times I have used search, only to be told that my search term was too common or too short......huh?

Just my 2p

Red

 

[Seagull]

For my ten penn,orth, I do believe it would be a retrograde slip, to go down the road of some form of segregation.

As has been previously given ,"..we are supposed to be a community".
Now, if I have got this right, a community consists of all types, with a common goal.
Alright, its a whole lot more than that , but all communitys have things happening all the time, things that some folk disagree with, are averse to, or would like to see the back of.

And thats the way of it.

I have seen some of the treatment dished out on other forums, to participants who are clearly not of the cognescenti, and I think it deplorable.
Would-be enthusiasts, being castigated for their lack of knowledge of content and/or protocol; horrible name-calling is the least of it.
Thankfully, our Mods dont allow that to happen here.

Sure, its right to raise this as a topic, but can we not at least, continue to absorb
newcomers, without categorising/limiting them,;;?
Whatever next? Sons and Daughters of BCUK?

This is not work, people, where trainees have to carefully structured into the organisation; we surely dont need the PDR outlook here.

I have very few basic beliefs , and , some would say, even less understanding of human nature, but I have learned that the best can be got out of people if;

They understand that they are apprecciated.
They are set a good example.

There you go.


Ceeg

 

[Ahjno]

Hi Admin, and others...

Would it not be a good idea to have a newbies section, where they can get the feel of the site, where they can ask questions to their hearts content without causing offence to anyone. My thought is that they can only start new threads in that area only...and when they have progressed in their skill on using the system they can start posting new threads in the other forums, they can however add to posts in the other forums...Just an idea...

LS

I understand your idea, but don't think it's fair to let newbies only create new threads in their section, and only allow them to post on excisting threads.

Other thing is where to draw the line, how to decide when their skill on using the system is progressed enough?
By the number of posts they made?
If that's the case I suggest to put the I'm-no-longer-a-newbie line on a 350 posts

Sometimes I do get tired of constant repeating the same question by new people ... but I did it myself too ... Only I had the luck there weren't that much members at the time I joined and was guided through by some great members and mods.

You learn bushcraft by doing it, plunging in ... In the beginning it often doesn't work the first time, but you keep trying and trying, untill you do succeed.
The same with the forum: you learn by doing it, plunging in ... ask questions, eventhough they are asked before. There might be some people who have the same question or there is a new member who can shine a light on it from his / hers previous experiences. And there's nothing wrong with pointing someone on the search function, it's here to be used - and have a look at rules and regulations

I'm more with ScottC here: create a FAQ, which newbies (sorry Neil ) are directed to after signing up.

Good thing to bring up though, it's worth a good discussion