Neanderthal diet

[santaman2000]

...As for the natural lifespan of a Neanderthal I would say with certainty that just like the remaining indigenous tribes of today it was much longer than we homo sapiens live for, and more importantly was completely free of the vast variety of diseases and ailments that we suffer from these days so their quality of life would of been a lot better too...

Most estimates I've seen are that their lifespan was around 14-20 years. Some estimates as long as 28-30 years.

To be fair though that's likely not a good indicator of how good their diet was. They simply faced more dangers and didn't have medical care when injured. If they couldn't keep up, they died. They were lower on the food chain then.

They suffered horrendous injuries (as eveidenced by the broken bones found in fossil remains) lived a hand to mouth existance, and died; you really think that was a better quality of life?

Probably true they didn't have the diseases and ailments we have today. They had their own ailments of the day: Anthrax, Rabies, etc.

 

[sandsnakes]

i think it's safe to assume that whatever they ate, it was far less processed than today. BTW, I'm not a fan of fad diets either.

Did I advocte fad diets? Dont think so, what is well documented is a lean protien diet high in omegas 3/6 ration not 6/3. Low refined foods etc etc. It was observed by one early dietary researcher that 'the first thing man did when he learned to walk upright was to brew alcohol so he could get on all fours again!'.

It is known by animal studies that many species once introduced to our 'western diet' will actually prefer to starve than return to the diet they were genetically adapted to. Studies have show remarkable changes in both Type 1 and Type 2 diebetics when following this general paleo principle. For many our diet consists mainly of foods that give some form of endocrine 'high' adrenaline spikes and etc. The argument for a 'paleo type' diet is sound, as to what it did actually consist of is open to question.

I would suggest you read Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs and the contorversial science of diet and health. Gary Taubes

Sandsnakes

 

[sandbender]

I've glanced through the OP's article, looked through the wiki entry for the paleo-diet and I don't doubt that it might offer a healthy option for some, especially the bit about cutting out all the over processed sugary stuff, but really, no dairy? No cheese and presumably no wine and no beer.

No grains? No fine crusty breads!

A bit boring isn't it?

 

[sandsnakes]

As has been pointed out we as Homo Sapiens are the sum total of many differing strains of 'human'. We are basically a genetic mongrel, all dogs are dogs some are genetically 97% wolf, others are in the 40%. Neanderthals are a very small part of your genetic make up, though in there own time line they were very successful. So we cannot actually compare life expectancy as they are (or are possibly not) one very small fragment of our gene strain.

I would also say that it was the Victorians with the advent of clean water and sewers that have given us longevity. Take that away and refridgeration and we will be back to the 14-20 year life span pretty dam quickly.

Sandsnakes

 

[mountainm]

As has been pointed out we as Homo Sapiens are the sum total of many differing strains of 'human'. We are basically a genetic mongerl, all dogs are dog some are genetically 97% wolf others are in the 40%. Neanderthals are a very small part of your genetic make up, though in there own time line they were very successful. so we cannot actually compare life expectancy as they are (or are possibly not) one very small componant of our make up. I would aslo say that it was the Victorians with the advent of clean water and sewers that have given us longevity. Take that away and refridgeration and we will be back to the 14-20 year life span pretty dam quickly.

Sandsnakes

I don't know if that applies to sparsely populated areas where problems of a choking population aren't an issue. Been trying to find a graph of life expectancy/Year going back far enough but I don't think the data exists.

 

[sandsnakes]

Mountainm

I had to study the stats when a student. Most of them are not online yet the figures of 'sewage related deaths' were pretty appaling even in the USA outback were 'cess/sanitary pits' contaminated local water table. Leaving it on the ground with a cat scrape is far healthier..you have to enough ground, so hunter gatherers probably did no encounter some kinds of epidemic.

S

 

[British Red]

For treats I eat flapjacks

So...grains mixed with refined sugar and dairy then?

 

[rik_uk3]

Lub0, you don't seriously think ye olde man lived longer than us?

A quick google suggests that 40 was a 'good age'.

When the film Saving Private Ryan was made the hunt was on for uniforms. As luck would have it a load were found but...the soldiers of 60 years ago were shorter and lighter than the modern soldier so uniforms had to be made to fill the gaps.

I've nursed a woman of 105, bright as a button (came in with a broken hip) and on one ward out of eight beds three were occupied by women who were 100 (one was 101). While many moan about the modern diet we are healthier now than ever in many respects. Don't blame the range and diversity of food available for all the medical problems, blame the individuals who over indulge.


Sandbender, great photo and the picture is very typical of a lunch I'll take with me when on a day bimble, I joke not and lovely it is too

 

[santaman2000]

Did I advocte fad diets?...

No, you didn't. I was agreeing with you.

 

[santaman2000]

...Studies have show remarkable changes in both Type 1 and Type 2 diebetics when following this general paleo principle...

That's interesting. It seems unlikely though as Type 1 diabetes is considered genetic and involves lack of insulin production rather thanoverwelming the system as Type 2.

 

[sandsnakes]

type two can go, type one stabilises. Lots of studies in pubmed

 

[santaman2000]

...I would also say that it was the Victorians with the advent of clean water and sewers that have given us longevity. Take that away and refridgeration and we will be back to the 14-20 year life span pretty dam quickly.

Sandsnakes

Rural America (and many towns) in the early 29th century (prior to the late 1920s) had no electricity (thertefore no refridgeration) water was from untreated wells and the sewer system was an outhous or raw sewage dumped into the nearest stream or roadside ditch. At that time the census shows the average lifespan to have been in the upper 40s (I suspect higher for the better off)

But your point is indeed valid. It was AFTER refridgeration and clean water came to those areas that the lifespan rose.

 

[santaman2000]

type two can go, type one stabilises...

"Stabilizes" is an accurate choice of words; Eventually the pancreas quits insulin production altogether and the diabetic is totally dependent on injections. That's definitely "stable."

Diabetes runs in my mother's side of the family; my grandfather was, and 1 uncle is type 1. I'm type 2 And yes, a large part of my problem is because I over-eat and under-excersize; but I take full responsibility for that, it's not Ronald Mcdonald's fault

 

[sandsnakes]

if your interested

http://www.medscape.org/diabetes-endocrinology?src=cmemp

resource for all things diabetic related

 

[xylaria]

Did I advocte fad diets? Dont think so, what is well documented is a lean protien diet high in omegas 3/6 ration not 6/3. Low refined foods etc etc. It was observed by one early dietary researcher that 'the first thing man did when he learned to walk upright was to brew alcohol so he could get on all fours again!'.

It is known by animal studies that many species once introduced to our 'western diet' will actually prefer to starve than return to the diet they were genetically adapted to. Studies have show remarkable changes in both Type 1 and Type 2 diebetics when following this general paleo principle. For many our diet consists mainly of foods that give some form of endocrine 'high' adrenaline spikes and etc. The argument for a 'paleo type' diet is sound, as to what it did actually consist of is open to question.

I would suggest you read Good Calories, Bad Calories: Fats, Carbs and the contorversial science of diet and health. Gary Taubes

Sandsnakes

I held a job in mcdonalds for whole 2 months before getting sacked. The rats in bins outside, would eat the burgers and frys and cardboard, but they would leave the "bread" buns. The bread is so processed any form of texture is missing so i presume there is no nurtients such as vit E, there must something really wrong if rats think the cardboard has better nutrition. I have heard the same tale about crisps.

Wild foods are high in nutriants. I swear the reason westerners over eat is because we are are effectively starved of nutrition, plenty of calories, just not enough minerals, vitamins, and micronutrients.

I totally agree the argument for eating our natural diet is sound, what that is the question.

In the wild at the moment there is quite a bit grain around to eat, I havent worked out how to turn it into a nutrtional vacant burger bap yet.

 

[santaman2000]

I held a job in mcdonalds for whole 2 months before getting sacked. The rats in bins outside, would eat the burgers and frys and cardboard, but they would leave the "bread" buns. The bread is so processed any form of texture is missing so i presume there is no nurtients such as vit E, there must something really wrong if rats think the cardboard has better nutrition...

Rats are rodents (meaning their diet is largely wood based) Cardboard is made from wood pulp. We're primates.

 

[Woadhart]

Perhaps instead of blaming modern foods, fast foods etc, we should actually put blame on the individuals who over eat them. If your fat you've put too much fuel in your body, too thin and you've not added enough. Its not the food at fault, its your judgement.

I agree that people should take responsibility for what they are eating, I don't think anyone would disagree with that given the assumption of free-will.

However, certain big players in the food industry are exploiting scientific research into how our reward systems react to certain foods to design products containing nutritionally questionable ingredients which encourage people to over-consume purely for increased profit-making. Therefore it would stand against reason to absolve them of any responsibility in the relationship of food manufacturer - customer if their goal is to willingly encourage people to over-consume.

They don't care about the well-being of society, they only care about their profits so I stay away from their products.

Sorry for the de-rail.

 

[spiritwalker]

its funny how if its so wrong why did every civilisation over every continent form its own form of starch products? potatoes rice corn wheat breads etc they all went down the same route just using what was indigenous. Also longevity started to appear when we got together and got civilised through a vast combination of many factors. Medicine irrigation sanitation etc and the common ground was basically just sharing the knowledge...

as stated eat what you want just balance it out and if you want to eat big portions then you better put some exercise in just about balance ....

 

[rik_uk3]

My local Tesco has a run of shelves about thirty metres long just full of water, small bottles, litre/2l/5l/10l bottles, still water, fizzy water, flavoured water, water from Scotland, water from France, Water from Italy and yet a couple of thousand miles away people are dying because they don't have access to ANY clean water, while others are starving to death; they'd not care if it was a box of sugar loaded doughnuts, a big mac, or a donar kebab...I'm pretty sure they would be more than happy to eat it.

Then we come to threads like this, where people crusade some new diet, blame the big corporations for people stuffing food in people's mouths etc (its never the individuals fault they ended up fat gits, its the coca cola corporation or the Golden Arches fault)... I think we should all shut up for a little bit and think hard on how lucky we are to even be able to self indulge in whatever food takes our fancy.

 

[Woadhart]

No worries Rik, we are entitled to different points of view and yes we are lucky to have easy access to a varied diet.