Neanderthal diet

[Woadhart]

Interesting article.

But with regard to the fad diet: I try and stay away from foods that are processed by companies that don't really care about my well-being. On the other hand, I also steer clear of the folks who are trying to sell me a solution to that problem. Both parties are worthy of scepticism in my opinion.

 

[rik_uk3]

They ate what was available, I daresay they were not over 'picky' so theirs was not a diet of choice but of what was available. Much the same as modern man, only we pick what we eat from what is available. There is nothing wrong with modern foods so long as you are aware of what you eat and don't overdo it.

Eating a Big Mac once a month won't kill you, however if you choose to live on sugar/fat/salt loaded foods on a daily basis you may develop problems.

Perhaps instead of blaming modern foods, fast foods etc, we should actually put blame on the individuals who over eat them. If your fat you've put too much fuel in your body, too thin and you've not added enough. Its not the food at fault, its your judgement.

 

[sandsnakes]

That phrase -- "cutting out" -- assumes that the current diet is "normal" ... which it is not. It's a highly artificial construct, which could not have existed even 30 years ago, let alone before the advent of agriculture. IOW, not for almost all of the past 2.5 million years of our existence.

Anyone who knows even schoolboy-level evolutionary biology realises that we are shaped by our environmental conditions, and you can't eat a particular type of diet for hundreds of millions of years without being adjusted to it.

The real question is whether our species can continue to add a higher and higher percentage of foods that we're really not "designed" for to the human diet without virtually killing ourselves off. And I mean that literally.

The current diet has brought about a worldwide epidemic of obesity and diabetes. There are obese five-year olds with plaqued arteries in the States, and there are now children being born already insulin-resistant, owing to the mothers' diets. And obesity and diabetes are only a part of it. Auto-immune diseases are the number three killer in industrialised countries. Anthropologists and medical-missionaries, like Schweitzer, reported not seeing a single case of cancer among primitive peoples eating their traditional diets. It began to appear as they became westernised. There is a whole cluster of these diseases that were long known by anthropologists as "the diseases of civilisation".

The current diet benefits almost no-one except the supermarkets and the argicultural interests that lie behind the absurd dietary recommendations of the United States Department of Agriculture -- which seem to be taken as a worldwide standard by the ignorant despite the fact that leading scientists have said that they "ignore the science" and "fly in the face of the evidence":

http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/PIIS0899900710002893/fulltext

What also never comes to light is that there is archeological evidence to suggest many strands of humanity have evolved and died out because of poor dietary practice. Genetically we are in effect the sum total of those strands that survived and crossbreed. What we are beginning to see is a dietary practice that is ultimately self limiting and self destructive to the sector of society who follow it. Paleo diet got us here and now its being discarded for a dietary practice with proven ill health consequences. If you want you and yours to survive make the logical choice or eat high saturated fat, high salt, high refined carbohydrate diet…all cooked in a mircowave.

Sandsnakes

 

[Wook]

What I don't understand is, as anyone who has watched Ray Mear's Wild Food knows, the exact content of the aboriginal diet of Britain and most of the world is unknown. Virtually all plant matter leaves no archaeological trace.

So how can you market a modern diet based on something whose content is largely unknown?

 

[sandsnakes]

Findings in fires, what was discarded, shards of bone etc, etc. What is now eaten by people in similar physical environments etc. Thing you cant find is wooden tools which were crucial, as when they broke they burnt them. Had a very interesting 3 hour conversation with a chap who does this for a living this weekend and its amazing what they do find.

S

 

[lub0]

The Paleo diet is not a "fad" diet like some of you say here, it is a very sensible diet based on sound logical evidence of what human bodies can and cannot digest and assimilate. How can meat, vegetables, nuts, seeds and fruit be a fad diet? 100% of people would feel a whole lot better and see their little niggling aches, pains and ailments they falsely believe to simply be part and parcel of "being human" go away overnight if they cut out wheat, dairy, processed carbohydrates and replaced with the foods of the paleo diet.

If you want a fad diet look at the cabbage soup diet, the lemonade diet and the atkinsons diet ad infinitum. That being said, the atkins diet shares one principle with the Paleo diet albeit quite differently, that being to limit ones intake of carbohydrates to times of high physical activity, while all the other times to eat fibrous carbs which contain little to no sugar/starch.

As for the natural lifespan of a Neanderthal I would say with certainty that just like the remaining indigenous tribes of today it was much longer than we homo sapiens live for, and more importantly was completely free of the vast variety of diseases and ailments that we suffer from these days so their quality of life would of been a lot better too.

Weston A. Price and pottengers cats are two studies every human being should be required to read about as it will show the reader just how vital a good diet is.

 

[rik_uk3]

Fad:

Noun "A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze."

 

[shaggystu]

....Weston A. Price..... every human being should be required to read about as it will show the reader just how vital a good diet is.

got a link?

 

[rik_uk3]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Paleo_diet

Heres one.

 

[Wook]

The Paleo diet is not a "fad" diet like some of you say here, it is a very sensible diet based on sound logical evidence of what human bodies can and cannot digest and assimilate. How can meat, vegetables, nuts, seeds and fruit be a fad diet? 100% of people would feel a whole lot better and see their little niggling aches, pains and ailments they falsely believe to simply be part and parcel of "being human" go away overnight if they cut out wheat, dairy, processed carbohydrates and replaced with the foods of the paleo diet.

Just because something has some science behind it does not mean it itsn't a fad diet. A fad diet is something hyped that makes its authors a lot of money. Given the prevalence of paleo publications out there, I'd say at the moment it fits the bill. Atkins had a whole wad of "science" behind it, and it was still a fad diet.

Also there are a number of criticisms of the sound logical evidence you speak of. One is the point I have already raised - we have much more data about the meat paleo-man ate then we do the vegetables because they leave no trace. So the whole meat/veg ratio thing is (forbidden ) pie in the sky. We just don't know what kind of vegetable matter ancient people's ate or in what quantities.

Also, the paleo-diet seems to draw a false dichotomy between pre and post agricultural society. Humanity didn't wake up one morning and decide "hey, I'll start intensively farming today!". So how paleo do you want to go? For example on Colonsay they have found evidence of industrial scale nut harvesting dating back 9000 years - very early in the Mesolithic era. Most of the diet of the time would have closely resembled the true paleo diet, but many paleo advoates say nuts are a no-no.

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough information about what the ancient peoples ate to truly replicate their diet. The paleo diet is not a replication of the diet 10,000+ years ago. It is what some authors say is a modern reproduction of the diet 10,000+ years ago. And they say it in books, dvds and "programmes" that cost you money.

The paleo-diet is a product they wish you to buy. Now it may be a good product (I wouldn't know), but it is not what it purports to be.

Also anything advertised as the kind of cure-all you point to is usually worth taking with a pinch of salt.

Ah but wait, salt is forbidden in the paleo diet.....

 

[mountainm]

[video=youtube;hb0ef6NhY74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0ef6NhY74[/video]

ooo 'ike mammoot?

 

[lub0]

got a link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPCOGSnjP5w


@Wook I have never purchased a book on Paleo eating.. it's not neccesary! The internet has everything you could possibly want to know right at your fingertips. People make money on everything so it's not fair to discredit the diet because there are people selling books about it. Intelligent and discerning use of scepticism seems to be a rare virtue these days

The fact of the matter is that meat, fish, vegetables, fruit, nuts, eggs and seeds will provide your body with everything it needs while avoiding all avoiding all the sensitivities, ailments and eventually chrnoic diseases of eating beans, legumes, processed carbs, grains and pasturised/homogenized dairy.

Do you still think the Paleo diet is some sort of fad toy when my typical diet throughout the week consists of...

beef/lamb/chicken stew with potatoes, garlic, onions, marrow bones and all the usual root veggies that go in stews.
If I get bored of that I'll eat a beef or lamb bolonaise sauce with either brown rice, vegetables, potatos or quinoa.
If I get bored of that I'll eat canned wild salmon with a salad and homemade honey mustard sauce.
For treats I eat mixed seed and oat bars dipped in dark chocolate, flapjacks, crisps, and whatever else that dosn't contain wheat or dairy.

The diet is about as unrestrictive as you can get. It is absolutely perfect and ensures disease-free life with abundant energy. There is nothing a sane person could possibly critique about it.

 

[Wook]

lub0 you seem to be angling toward the "it's a good product" argument, which I am quite willing to accept. What I took issue with was the way in which it was marketed as a historically accurate model of the palaeolithic diet, something that is an impossibility.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPCOGSnjP5wIt is absolutely perfect and ensures disease-free life with abundant energy. There is nothing a sane person could possibly critique about it.

There is no such thing as a disease free life with abundant energy. It may help toward these things, but there are never guarantees.

I'm glad you've had a positive experience with this diet, and that you are enjoying good health.

However you must be cautious not to overstate the capabilities of your diet, because by so doing you will be more likely to engender scepticism rather than an honest appraisal.

I should also point out that you do not appear to following the paleo diet as most define it. Not least because chocolate contains dairy (even most dark chocolates).

 

[BOD]

Sorry but I have met people who eat a paleo diet or have ate a paleo diet until recently.

The change to a modern diet and the swift onset to diabetes and other illnesses is saddening.

Such people exist but we are hell bent on making them an underclass of fringe dwellers in "modern" societies.

 

[rik_uk3]

Depends what you class as a modern diet Bod, perhaps indiginous native folk when exposed to 'modern' food products eat too much of the wrong stuff, too much sugar, salt and fat etc.

Nothing wrong with fresh food these days if you balance out what you eat. There was a documentary about Tonga and its obesity problems, they eat masses of fat and sugar, things like Lamb flaps (breast of lamb)
http://pacific.scoop.co.nz/2010/09/...flaps-turkey-tails-and-expired-eggs-to-samoa/
Nice rolled and stuffed breast of lamb is fab, but you don't eat it everyday do you.

 

[santaman2000]

What also never comes to light is that there is archeological evidence to suggest many strands of humanity have evolved and died out because of poor dietary practice...

Poor dietary "practice?" Or the more commonly accepted theory that their diet failed to adapt and evolve to the changing cliate aroung them?

 

[santaman2000]

Findings in fires, what was discarded, shards of bone etc, etc. What is now eaten by people in similar physical environments etc. Thing you cant find is wooden tools which were crucial, as when they broke they burnt them. Had a very interesting 3 hour conversation with a chap who does this for a living this weekend and its amazing what they do find.

S

i think it's safe to assume that whatever they ate, it was far less processed than today. BTW, I'm not a fan of fad diets either.

 

[santaman2000]

...beef/lamb/chicken stew with potatoes, garlic, onions, marrow bones and all the usual root veggies that go in stews.
If I get bored of that I'll eat a beef or lamb bolonaise sauce with either brown rice, vegetables, potatos or quinoa.
If I get bored of that I'll eat canned wild salmon with a salad and homemade honey mustard sauce.
For treats I eat mixed seed and oat bars dipped in dark chocolate, flapjacks, crisps, and whatever else that dosn't contain wheat or dairy...

So you don't consider rice to be a grain? Or oats? Or the grains to make the flour for the flapjacks? Paelo man had beef?

 

[santaman2000]

Depends what you class as a modern diet Bod, perhaps indiginous native folk when exposed to 'modern' food products eat too much of the wrong stuff, too much sugar, salt and fat etc.

Nothing wrong with fresh food these days if you balance out what you eat. There was a documentary about Tonga and its obesity problems, they eat masses of fat and sugar, things like Lamb flaps (breast of lamb)
http://pacific.scoop.co.nz/2010/09/...flaps-turkey-tails-and-expired-eggs-to-samoa/
Nice rolled and stuffed breast of lamb is fab, but you don't eat it everyday do you.

Also Rik, many indigenous peoples still have the "thrift gene." The Eskimo and American Indian come to mind. Their matabolism is still evolved to thrive on a leaner diet.

 

[shaggystu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPCOGSnjP5w....

thanks for that, very interesting. in all honesty though i don't really trust the "price pottanger nutrition foundation" to be the best source of un-biased information about messrs. price and pottanger and/or his/their work. any chance of a link to the study that you think we should all have to read?