Kit that has never been bettered
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58 pattern webbing was introduced in 1958, hence the name "58 pattern"
No idea when the US army bottle came into being though.
Scots_Charles_River
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Karrimor Alpiniste 65L rucksac, 1989. Still perfect except some stitching lose on the shoulder harness.
Used it Sunday, perfect inversion, up the Arrochar Alps.
Used it Sunday, perfect inversion, up the Arrochar Alps.
Still easier to use the old long handle US mug over a fire though John, measuring marks? who needs them. That said, the Crusader holds a full 500ml of beer with room for froth
58 pattern webbing was introduced in 1958, hence the name "58 pattern"
No idea when the US army bottle came into being though.
The US canteen and cup in their current shape and size came about Between WWI and WWII; around the 1920s or 1930s. Only the cup handle and canteen material have changed.
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Better for bushcrafting perhaps but they are both originally designed as military kit. Not a good idea to fill from a stream after a chemical or biological attack.
I suppose that is an aspect that has been bettered since the original was first issued; the newer ones have lids that allow attachment to a drinking tube on the gas mask so that you can drink while in full chem gear.
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Well since were obstensibly a bushcraft forum not a Military equipment forum perhaps the concerns regarding NBC or should that be CBRN suitability are a bit moot...
The 58 pattern water bottle is an updated version of the 44 pattern which was produced primarily for use in tropical environments. In the Ulu filling up from a stream or using a millbank bag is part of the routine, having a water bottle with a nice wide mouth is a distinct advantage for both practices. Same in a cold environment.. you can add snow to your water bottle far more easily.
Still easier to use the old long handle US mug over a fire though John, measuring marks? who needs them. That said, the Crusader holds a full 500ml of beer with room for froth
Like a lot of things in life technique is everything....
If we are talking classic designs?
Then a few spring to mind, however many manufacturers have to change there range every season to fuel our appetite for consumerism, and so stopped making classic "good-kit" items, in my mind they are still classics even you cant get hold of them anymore.
My list would be:
Old style windproof smocks - cowl hoods, slanted pockets, old-skool big buttons - simple not over complicated.
Breghaus Cyclops Roc - had one for years, then the frame got trashed, so off I went to get another, only to find they stopped making them. And after that I looked high & low for something as good - Crusaders, Sabres, Custom jobs, etc. Then a couple of years back I found one. Using it again I realised just how good it is.
Opinel No7 - simple & brilliant.
Mora Classic No 1 - nuff said.
Meindhl Borneo - No Goretex, just a good, basic , all round boot, whether you're in the woods or in the hills.
Buffalo Shirt - purchased mine in the 80's and still going strong.
Helly Fibre Field jacket - packs small, bloody warm. Upgraded to a wool version a few years back, still brilliant.
British Army Lightweights - the old ones with a thigh pocket. Simple , cheap, dry quick and almost indestructable.
Us Army Wool watch cap - still my head wear of choice when it gets cold - tho you can get a better choice of colours.
Trangia 27 Cooker - does what it says on the box -Cooks!
Dalesman Cotton Canvas Gaiters - had a pair for years, they work!
There are a few other I can think of....Maybe later.
N
Then a few spring to mind, however many manufacturers have to change there range every season to fuel our appetite for consumerism, and so stopped making classic "good-kit" items, in my mind they are still classics even you cant get hold of them anymore.
My list would be:
Old style windproof smocks - cowl hoods, slanted pockets, old-skool big buttons - simple not over complicated.
Breghaus Cyclops Roc - had one for years, then the frame got trashed, so off I went to get another, only to find they stopped making them. And after that I looked high & low for something as good - Crusaders, Sabres, Custom jobs, etc. Then a couple of years back I found one. Using it again I realised just how good it is.
Opinel No7 - simple & brilliant.
Mora Classic No 1 - nuff said.
Meindhl Borneo - No Goretex, just a good, basic , all round boot, whether you're in the woods or in the hills.
Buffalo Shirt - purchased mine in the 80's and still going strong.
Helly Fibre Field jacket - packs small, bloody warm. Upgraded to a wool version a few years back, still brilliant.
British Army Lightweights - the old ones with a thigh pocket. Simple , cheap, dry quick and almost indestructable.
Us Army Wool watch cap - still my head wear of choice when it gets cold - tho you can get a better choice of colours.
Trangia 27 Cooker - does what it says on the box -Cooks!
Dalesman Cotton Canvas Gaiters - had a pair for years, they work!
There are a few other I can think of....Maybe later.
N
Johnboy,
I have to agree on the water bottle & mug front - trying to fill a US one from a Millbank is a nigthmare!
The US mug is very good kit, you don't get the "burnt-lip" - there was a rumour they were made from some super, hi-tic material? - I don't know, but its a lot more user friendly.
The US Arctic Canteen & cup - seems to be hated , but I like mine, it works!
The Norlund Hatchet - sadly no longer available, but a brilliant bit of kit - IMO better than the Wildlife Hatchet.
The Khukri!
The Normark Super Swede - all those Marines were'nt wrong - a good knife, superb steel and you can field strip it.
The old Sandvik folding saw (pictured in Rays Survival handbook), far better than the Bacho offering. Found something very similar on evil-bay for £6.50 a while back and it is as good.
Berghaus Munro 35 - paid £20 for mine in Moorland Rambler in the 80's and its still sees almost daily use. Simple, well built design, nothing fancy and less to go wrong.
Future classics (ones to watch!)
Cold Steel Trail Hawk - have been using one hard for the last year and have been very impressed (my GB SFA has'nt been used at all this year).
Spyderco Tenacious - sort of a "tactical" Super Swede, nice to use, good in rubbish weather or marine environments and £35.
I have to agree on the water bottle & mug front - trying to fill a US one from a Millbank is a nigthmare!
The US mug is very good kit, you don't get the "burnt-lip" - there was a rumour they were made from some super, hi-tic material? - I don't know, but its a lot more user friendly.
The US Arctic Canteen & cup - seems to be hated , but I like mine, it works!
The Norlund Hatchet - sadly no longer available, but a brilliant bit of kit - IMO better than the Wildlife Hatchet.
The Khukri!
The Normark Super Swede - all those Marines were'nt wrong - a good knife, superb steel and you can field strip it.
The old Sandvik folding saw (pictured in Rays Survival handbook), far better than the Bacho offering. Found something very similar on evil-bay for £6.50 a while back and it is as good.
Berghaus Munro 35 - paid £20 for mine in Moorland Rambler in the 80's and its still sees almost daily use. Simple, well built design, nothing fancy and less to go wrong.
Future classics (ones to watch!)
Cold Steel Trail Hawk - have been using one hard for the last year and have been very impressed (my GB SFA has'nt been used at all this year).
Spyderco Tenacious - sort of a "tactical" Super Swede, nice to use, good in rubbish weather or marine environments and £35.
I'd agree with you there, but sadly since Bahco and Sanvik are now the same company, we will never get that quality back again.
First a point about the streams: I've found that filling from a stream (or more often here, a spring) that the narrow mouths are easier to use when filtering out debris is an issue. Just my experience though, you may have different results.
Secondly is a question: I've never heard the term "millbank." Is it the same thing as a water buffalo?
Third: I like the observation about adding snow; it makes loads of sense though I'd never thought of it.
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A Millbank bag is just a type of basic water filter, a bag made of tightly-woven canvas with an eyelet to hang it up by. The canvas wets out, then strains out any solid particles from the water passing through it. Not exactly reverse osmosis, but better than nothing, and probably fine for areas with good water quality. Perhaps puritab or boiling to finish off.
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Not perhaps. Always sterilise it.
So we go back to fire it has never been bettered and with a crusader mug good potable water with no bad belly.
Then clean water poured in to your wide mouth 58' bottle. it wins hands down.
Here you go a Millbank in action...
Filtering into a US butterfly handled Canteen cup.
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That's completely correct. Milbanks will filter ALL debris and solid contaminates (such as silt and plant matter), but the water still requires bringing to the boil, to kill off parasites. A steritab would do the same as the boil, if on the move, or were unable to create fire.
I much, much prefer the US water bottle & canteen to the crusader, it's a more comfortable shape, it fits together better, it's more compact and it's lighter to carry.
