1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

In the News Today

Discussion in 'Bushcraft Chatter' started by Toddy, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,660
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
    Epi pens are a last resort. If I present at hospital with anaphylactic shock they feed antihistmines first, and only if that's not resolving things quickly enough would they use epinedrine.
    It's a hellish shock to the system. You don't just get up and get on with things pdq, put it that way.

    M
     
    Nice65 likes this.
  2. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,660
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
  3. Keith_Beef

    Keith_Beef Native

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    228
    Location:
    Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
    A very interesting article, about a subject that has been on my mind for years.

    It's not only about food, but technology, too.

    I can imagine somebody building a fire, and finding that native copper ran from stones used as a hearth, and so the idea of copper smelting is born. And maybe accidental alloys led to bronze.

    In a similar way, maybe it was the accidental drying out or roasting followed by reconstitution with water that led people to learn how to process foods similar to cassava.
     
  4. C_Claycomb

    Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,269
    Likes Received:
    415
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    I saw that and was going to post it too.

    Better examples would be, how did the Bushmen figure out to use the grubs on the roots of the comifora bush as arrow poison.
     
    Toddy likes this.
  5. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Or, in an area with plenty to eat why eat poisonous plants or animals?
     
  6. Keith_Beef

    Keith_Beef Native

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    228
    Location:
    Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
    The area might have a plentiful food supply now, but have gone through periods of famine or short supply in the past. Then the consumption of what is apparently a bad food choice becomes ingrained as culture and tradition, and people carry it on.
     
  7. Keith_Beef

    Keith_Beef Native

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    228
    Location:
    Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
    There are places in the USA where people eat pokeweed leaves... maybe only once or twice a year.
     
  8. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Good points! That will explain the British Cuisine then!
    ( And Scandinavian, plus Finnish........)

    :)

    (I am pulling your leg, mother was a food historian, and used us a guinea pigs.........
    I did not mind, it started my interest in food, including Exotic food..)

    Two things/foods I would not touch. The SE Asian unborn bird babies, and South American alcoholic beverage which is made by old toothless ladies chewing and spitting it out.
    Fresh Whale Eyes, fermented birds - bring it on!
     
    #28 Janne, Sep 4, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
  9. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,540
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    Humans have foraged for local plant and animal materials for hundreds of thousands of years.
    Nothing has gone unexplored. No plants of economic value have been introduced in recorded history.
    What's good, bad or indifferent was sorted out in the earliest of paleo times.

    I fully expect that there have been fatal blunders which have long since gone unrecorded.
    This is exactly the kind of knowledge that you expect to be remembered by your medicine man/medicine woman.
    Not some honky white guy's big pharma textbook.

    Paralytic Shellfish Poisoning was and is the classic example from the Pacific Northwest.
     
    Toddy likes this.
  10. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    We have lost knowledge of plants of future economic, or pharmacological vale.

    Here on Cayman, (where the soils are non existent so the population relied on Fish, invertebrates and turtles, with the odd Iguana thrown into the pot,) they got Ciguatera poisoning as a rule.
    Lost all teeth at a young age, nerve problems, muscle pain.
    Still happens, have friends that had a couple of bouts of it.

    They knew which fish, but hunger is a strong motivator!
     
    Toddy likes this.
  11. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,540
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    Neolithic is alive and well here, not some 10,000 yrs BP followed by a bronze age.
    Direct jump to iron with European contact. That wasn't much more than 200 years ago here in the PacNW.

    Of course, you might expect a lot of old ways to have been abandoned in favor of labor saving designs.
    However, much of the botanical things, the pharmacognacy of local plants, is very well understood and practiced.
    Trusted elders make up the salves and tinctures as they always have.
     
    Toddy and Woody girl like this.
  12. Nice65

    Nice65 Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,014
    Likes Received:
    862
    Location:
    W.Sussex
    Very much so. Epipens can also be misunderstood, even by medically trained nurses. I’ve had a highly allergic urticaria (hives) reaction to something unknown several times and had to get to a doctors, and once to A&E gasping for breath. In A&E I was given intravenous antihistamine and steroids to reduce the swelling that was making it difficult to breathe. A nurse recommended I see my GP about carrying an epipen. So I did, as these reactions were getting worse each time. The GP looked at my hospital report and said my blood pressure was above normal to high during the episode. Anaphylaxis presents as extremely low BP and an epipen under those circumstances could have been deadly. A severe allergic reaction is not anaphylactic shock.

    Later, it turned out I had Lymphoma and my whole immune system was in some sort of confused overdrive attacking my thyroid which unbeknown to me had been underactive (hypo) probably for many years. My doctor was furious about that nurse, said it was like recommending aspirins or ibuprofen to someone with stomach ulcer pain. :D
     
    Robson Valley and Toddy like this.
  13. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Toddy likes this.
  14. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,660
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
    Interesting article, Janne :) Thank you for the link.

    So, they're really saying that the lower LDC in vegetarians, while a good thing re heart health might be an issue with, albeit a tiny proportion of the vegetarians, strokes.
    VitB, VitD seem to play a part too.

    Makes me wonder if the general poor heart health of many of those in the the North of the UK might actually have something to do with the lack of VitD too, and not just the diet.
    Our Government recommends that we all take VitD supplements from Autumn through to Spring.

    Vegetarians now know that they have to be aware of the VitB12 lack in our diet, it wasn't always so. Most just ignored the issue entirely.

    The report makes mention of socio-economic and educational backgrounds, but it doesn't mention the changing background of the information flow through the years re diet.
    Like the specific vitamins, I mean.

    M
     
    Robson Valley likes this.
  15. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
  16. demographic

    demographic Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,038
    Likes Received:
    97
    Location:
    -------------
    Pretty sure I remember something on Radio Four mentioning the incidence of rickets amongst coloured people in Glasgow.
    Darker skin blocking the sunlight and not producing as much vitamin D as those with light skin.
     
  17. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Correct. Not only Ricketts, but the other Vit D deficiency problems
    Research seems to indicate that VitD is hugely important for us.

    I was at a lecture a few years back, and extensive research show that people with African ancestry with an indoor job and average hobbies start getting a Vit D deficiency above the latitude of Boston.

    Translated to Europe that means basically north of mid Italy or the Spanish-French border
     
    Robson Valley and demographic like this.
  18. Keith_Beef

    Keith_Beef Native

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    228
    Location:
    Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
    It's not exactly new. The Lancet had an article about it in 1973, I seem to remember reading something about it in the 1980s, among some immigrant populations (Bangladeshi, I think) in the UK.

    Immigrant populations in the UK tended to keep their traditional diets; for certain populations, the diet was relatively poor in vitamin D. Back in Bangladesh, this would not be a problem as their bodies made up for it. In the UK their bodies couldn't make the vitamin D which is necessary for assimilating calcium. Simple solution was to give vitamin D supplements.
     
    #38 Keith_Beef, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2019
  19. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,102
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    A simpler solution is to enrich foods with the vitamins and minerals we have a problem getting.

    Modern food fads contribute a lot.
    White chicken mean is not as nutritious as Beef/Pork/Lamb liver. Just a simple example.
    Plus the light from a screen does not induce the formation of Vit D.
     
  20. Keith_Beef

    Keith_Beef Native

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    228
    Location:
    Yvelines, north-west of Paris, France.
    Yes, but in the case of immigrant populations sticking to their traditional foods, they might not be consuming the vitamin enriched foods.
     

Share This Page