Growing early ( as in Iron Age/ Saxon ) food plants?

[tombear]

Cool, I've just read about Babbingtons, they are the real McCoy! Thanks!

Herself found a source for the Collards and ordered a couple of types.

http://moreveg.co.uk/shop/page/63?s...1wxvtzQal7BkDHe86sPGxXSweWdlHw2GA&shop_param=

Compared to a lot of seed places I've looked at they are really cheap.

ATB

Tom

 

[British Red]

Not the F1 I hope

Good site that!

 

[tombear]

Nah, the Georgia and the Vates, She ordered some Summer Savoury and Good King Henry as the Saxons grew it as well. she also got some "normal" veg for the other two, stuff that won't cross pollinate the other stuff so the seeds will be worth collecting for next year.

ATB

Tom

 

[British Red]

Good man - I think seed saving is almost as important as veg growing both to be authentic. Its also a part of the quiet revolution - making us independent souls!

 

[British Red]

Just ordered a load of seeds of interesting varieties - I blame you Tom

 

[Quixoticgeek]

I would suggest that you are going go be hard pressed (and quite disappointed with the size of crop) to find strains that have been left unaltered over 1000 years.

But a few points

- Carrots - These would not be orange, that is a result of Dutch plant breading later on, look for white and purple varieties
- Onions - The giant globe onions we get these days are a long way from Saxon crops. The sort of thing you would find is going to be closer in size to a large shallot.
- Beans - You are looking for the traditional old "field bean" they tend to be sold these days as a green manure, I think Kings seeds or Suffolk Herbs sell them.
- Peas - The large type we get today are a developed version of the pea, look for a variety that gives small peas.
- Cabbage - The hearting cabbage of the modern age is not quite accurate for 1000 years ago, you are looking for things more like kale and loose hearting cabbage varieties.

The goto book on this subject is Anglo Saxon Food and Drink - Ann Hagen Well worth a read.

Good luck, and keep us updated on your progress.

J

 

[tombear]

Cheers for that, the lads had that book for a while and we both found it quite interesting. We been able to find quite a few of the as near as you can get food crops and when in doubt have gone for the wild versions of them, which as you say, will give very poor returns for the amounts of effort going in but we feel will be closer to the tastes. If the lad remains interested we may go in for attempts at improving the wild ones, simple stuff like just using the seed from the biggest. Luckily no one near seems to garden vegetables so although its always there the risks of cross pollination are somewhat reduced.

For cabbage we have followed the lead of one of the museums that specialises in medieval plants and gone for collards.

The soil around here is pretty poor and acidic, thankfully there's a source of manure nearby but we will try not to use a unrealistic amount just because we can. I've drawn the line at human poo . Which all reminds me we need to start on a compost heap!

Onions have been a stumbling block and I've not found any that seem suitable so far.

Another thing I'm short of and want to do a patch of is some suitable period oats, as this was most certainly barley and oat country. We don't have the space to do enough as a worthwhile crop but I believe the stems were much longer than modern varieties and like the bene mentioned previously there's some craft work using the stems we fancy trying. If anyone has a pointer to r lily old fashioned oats we'd love to here.

Better get back to digging!

ATB

Tom

 

[Toddy]

Would you like brandling worms for your compost heap ?

Mine grow writhing knots of them that weight kgs
The heaps make beautiful worm worked soil. Not hot heaps though, so I don't dump seeds into them to be killed by heat. Only stuff the worms will eat.

They do a good job cleaning up bones too These are from a roe deer.

M

 

[British Red]

Can't help with long stemmed wheat Tom - can help with absurdly rare long stemmed wheat if you go that route - certainly produces very long straw


Wheat Sheaf by British Red, on Flickr

 

[tombear]

Er, yes, at some point in the future if we may, I've not even picked a spot yet!

When I saw the pic the first thing I thought of was "gagh!" , as in the Klingon delicacy. The fact that they clean bone up is of great interest. Very subtly herself has taken to pushing the iPad I front of my face with some fancy bone hair pins image on ot and the comment " could you make that ". Note the lack of question mark.

I've dug out the half dozen or so books on self sufficiency we have acquired but only skimmed through ( I think there's more somewhere) and in free moments. There's lots of pics and a assumption of stupidity I find comforting.

T and jnr got in th last of the 50 hawthorn whips just now and Ted was busy discovering that there was a dead, fallen over hawthorn tree under a head height mass of the hated ivy. We are steadily clearing it off and hopefully there will be some sound wood left in the trunk. Which would be handy as while at the carboot ( more of that in the right place) with my head in a ammo can of tools the teen holding my beloved hawthorn stick dropped it, the other tried to lift it while the other big 15 year old jumped on the thinnest point in a attempt to stop him. Crack and a stick I could beat a mammoth to death with is now too short to be any use as a walking stick. I was not a happy bunny but after all it ws only a stick that cost me just timeand some linseed oil.

I let them stew in their own juices before telling them it was a dumb accident but learn from it, no biggy. Still, I really liked that stick, I'll turn the remains into something and make another, more round section one. The oval cross section was always a weakness but needful due to a indent in the wood it was carved down from.

We can now bash on with the digging etc. W'ell get some more whips to fill in where the ivy mound was when its irradicated

ATB

Tom

 

[tombear]

I take it the first wheat was oats? Otherwise I'm confussed. Cheers though, I don't think wheat will grow except in a Greenhouse oop in the wilds of the Pennines , well quite a sheltered valley on the edge but not so balmy as Lincolnshire!

ATB

Tom

 

[British Red]

Yeah - can't do oats, can do wheat. Doesn't need to be that warm, but doesn't like wind so not a great success for me

 

[Toddy]

How about the sturdy strawed barley ? That grows in our northernmost isles and they certainly get the wind.

I would love some of the straw from that long straw wheat for the corn dollies I make.
How easy is it to grow in heavy, damp ground ?

M

 

[British Red]

It grew easily enough for me Mary - but unless you grow in substantial blocks, the wind can and does lay it down. I've abandoned it as not viable here which upsets me - I wanted to skep the straw. You would be welcome to some seed to try (only small amounts I'm afraid)

 

[tombear]

I've a small quantity of bere seed coming from Orkney which should be fun to grow . Must remind T to order the bere meal for the lads baking as I think they will want to send the seed at the same time, only fair we pay the postage.

ATB

Tom

 

[Toddy]

If I grew it with the same kind of supports that I use for lilies ? would that work ?

I have wood millet growing if that would be of interest Tom ? not a lot of seed, but it's like mini linseeds.

Talking of which, linseed is authentic, and it grows easily too

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

If I grew it with the same kind of supports that I use for lilies ? would that work ?

You could certainly whack a tree stake in the middle of a patch and tie the whole circle to the stake.

Want me to thresh you some? Its Baart Early as a variety - extinct in the UK I believe

 

[Toddy]

Have I time to sow it and grow it this year ? or does it need to be in by now ?

Thank you kindly for the offer though

M

 

[British Red]

I planted at the beginning of April last year - it was fine

 

[tombear]

Since I've not found a authentic medeivil onion I've asked herself to order some Zebrune Shallots.

We are still working on clearing the garden but as soon a the seeds are in we will be potting some up indoors, I've been cleared the long window sill in the shed of all the pots of small tools, brushes , plastic rod etc. depending on the plant we will be setting some straight outside, others as seedlings when they have grown inside for a bit and some both to see how they do.

atb

Tom