Foraging / surviving from the land

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xylaria

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
I was thinking about this earlier; the correlation between the advent of arable farming in these islands, and that virtually all of the 'corn' isn't native. That our ancestors did not develop the indigenous plants into the domesticated forms that we see both in the Fertile Crescent and in MesoAmerica.

One has to wonder, why not ?

My first thought is that the two real advances of grain production are that there is little need for extended wanderings to follow the seasonal rounds, and secondly that it allows a surge of population growth that led to the necessity to spread out and away from the fertile riverine soils, and the subsequent destruction of the woodlands.

Once farming was established, cleared land, (transhumance aside, I reckon there would have been an element of livestock husbandry incorporated into the farming economy) then the travel to the riverine or esturine resources might well have been restricted or curtailed, either by pressure of numbers between the sites or available time) This would then make it more important to secure the lands that were used by particular groups of people for farming.

However, the natural indigenous resouces that could (and were, we have evidences for that) be exploited didn't disappear, and still seem to have been gathered and processed as food.

So how much farming was 'farming' and how much of the economy of the people who did farm was reliant upon their continuing exploitation of the available wild foods ? and when did the land pressure reach the stages that everything was restricted and unavailable unless the rights to it were actively given ?

I think the anthropology is as important as the agriculture and foraging, tbh.

Sometimes not much changes, does it ?

cheers,
M

anthropology is certainly import, environments differ and are capable of supporting people differanly. When I worked in the museum of london, I remember processing an early bronze age find. It was a bone midden from what is now has east london built on it. Then it was a huge marsh system that was rivalled the everglades in size. Wooden walk ways were built through the marshes. They appeared to eat mostly goose and other water birds. Or differant people came to the marshes to hunt goose.

I look at the river esturies near where I live and they support a massive wild bird population, and literally tons of reedmace, seabeet, parsnip, larfa, shellfish. The cocklebeds and larva are harvested in thier tons, and sheep are farmed on the saltmarshes. There is plentyful food but the two most calorie dense products I am not allowed to collect, the birds and the sheep. One private section of marsh allows shooting, but it costs for the permission. Taking sheep is theft. The human diet in the long term needs some fat, water fowl certainly provided this in the past.

I always feel when these threads desend into really unpleasant pointless rows about how a man would starve eating just rabbits, and parsnips, it would be healthier to discuss where various nutritive requirements could come from. Instead of keyboard warriors stating points based on something they read somewhere, rather than on any practical experiance. Practical experiance teaches that processing food, finding the locations of foraged food and hunting skills becomes more effienct with practice. Humans developed ways of preserving food and harvesting/hunting in bulk when we were still huntergathers. A years worth of hazelnuts were done in one go, herds were driven over cliffs, our history of advancement has been driven by our innovation to find the laziest way of making a living. But now that drive for the easy life has cut our knowledge down so far most people cant see how to find food without a supermarket.
 

Tony

White bear (Admin)
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Just read this thread with interest, my only comment really is to all play nice, I know that it was night time etc but if we have less of the accusatory comments it would flow a lot more nicely.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
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I am sure you are right mountainm, even the act of gathering the best and dropping their seeds near habitations and along trails will tend to select for more appetising fruits which will be reinforced as well as observant people realising this and deliberately encouraging through "gardens". It could even be that some element of horticulture actually prepared them for agriculture which could well have been done on garden plots on a small field scale. Hoe type cultivation to ploughs such as the ard requires fields.

It is even possible that in the Pendeen area of Cornwall some of the fields are still those of the earliest farmers, certainly Bronze Age at least.
 

Greg

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Jul 16, 2006
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Wow...7 pages of "Bushcrafters" discussing whether one man could keep himself comfortable and alive for a sustained period in modern day UK...and still no definitive answers..!
Thats because there is no answer until someone does it...but...c'mon guys is all this really necessary...now I know we all like to discuss things but you're discussing a subject that I can bet a weeks wage on that a vast majority of you taking part in this thread will never....EVER...find yourselves doing..including me!!
Now I know a few of you are very enthusiastic about your chosen hobby...but that is all it is a hobby...with the excemption of those of you who make a paid living from it..but its still only because you enjoy the various aspects of the vast subject of bushcraft that you specialise in.

The original question was can someone sustain themselves by foraging from the land....it didn't state you couldn't then begin cultivating what you have foraged or that you couldn't use modern amenities....it certainly didn't state that you had to turn into a mesolithic style Hunter Gatherer or that it was an end of the world scenario...after all if they had what we have now they certainly wouldn't be running around chasing Mammoth for dinner....or would they because they liked it...who knows!!
I know that where I live I can fish from the sea, gather shell fish, forage seaweed...forage fruits and other plant life from the land and hunt for rabbit..birds...crows...squirrel etc.
Personally I believe if I had too...and that is the question...IF I had too...I probably could live from the land & sea...but if I was to then consider all the other people that may want to do the same it would be a different ball game because then I'd have competition for the various resources.
That could lead to conflict....in which if I was that desperate and had to dispatch the opposition...there would then be the question of that body has alot of meat on it...big taboo subject I know...but in times of need....real desperate need...its not just bunnies on the menu!!

But having said all that...I know I have Tesco up the road...as do most of you...so why bother.
I bet that when the vast majority of you go on your bushy moots with your mates that the food you take with you is mostly shop bought...in which case the question has been answered because if you knew that you could forage for a weekends food you wouldn't buy it in the shops!!

Just my lowly opinion...no need to argue with me now :)
 

Greg

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Jul 16, 2006
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Don't get me wrong...I enjoy foraging...after all I've just harvested a bumper crop of blackberries, sloes, wild apples and hazelnuts....but the flour etc for the pie pastry was shop bought ;)
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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Don't get me wrong...I enjoy foraging...after all I've just harvested a bumper crop of blackberries, sloes, wild apples and hazelnuts....but the flour etc for the pie pastry was shop bought ;)

:D
Mine wasn't, I ground up the pendulous rush seeds and added in the pollen I collected earlier in the year :D....so I have both carbohydrate and mineral rich and protein too :cool:
I did use veggie oil though, because I choose not to eat animal fat.

I am certain that with knowledge and space to fit in the seasonal round, and reasonable physical fitness then yes, someone can survive and thrive. I still think that doing it alone isn't the way to go though.


Richard, we've got no sloes :( everything else in abundance but the sloes just aren't among them. Enjoy :)

cheers,
Toddy
 

Greg

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Jul 16, 2006
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:D
Mine wasn't, I ground up the pendulous rush seeds and added in the pollen I collected earlier in the year :D....so I have both carbohydrate and mineral rich and protein too :cool:
I did use veggie oil though, because I choose not to eat animal fat.

I am certain that with knowledge and space to fit in the seasonal round, and reasonable physical fitness then yes, someone can survive and thrive. I still think that doing it alone isn't the way to go though.


Richard, we've got no sloes :( everything else in abundance but the sloes just aren't among them. Enjoy :)

cheers,
Toddy

You mean you didn't make your own vege oil....shocking Toddy...Shocking..lol ;)
 

British Red

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Come and play sometime Greg - you can even make the sugar here - from our own sugar beet seeds that we will harvest in a week or two ;). You can thresh the wheat too - and try to keep the **** wind from flattening it!

It is fascinating trying to make every component of even a simple meal without making a purchase :)
 

Toddy

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Jan 21, 2005
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You mean you didn't make your own vege oil....shocking Toddy...Shocking..lol ;)

I reckon British Red would though :D

I suppose we could squeeze the beechmast ? no hazlenuts, just loads of squiggels :rolleyes: so that one's out. Sunflower seeds....they grow well :)
Trying to think what else we could use too, but I think nut seeds or sunflowers is it for us.

atb,
M

p.s. He beat me to it :D
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
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Oil seed rape or sunflowers is the way to go Mary - but you do need an oil press to extract it. They are reasonably "high tech" devices - more so than a cider press because the seed size is so small so they have to be made to tight tolerances

[/geek]
 

Greg

Full Member
Jul 16, 2006
4,335
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Come and play sometime Greg - you can even make the sugar here - from our own sugar beet seeds that we will harvest in a week or two ;). You can thresh the wheat too - and try to keep the **** wind from flattening it!

It is fascinating trying to make every component of even a simple meal without making a purchase :)

I'd love too Red :)
 

Greg

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Jul 16, 2006
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I noticed the other night that there is a big salt marsh reed bed by one of the beaches down here...can the seed heads from that be used for flour??
 

British Red

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Flour is basically the ground starches from members of the grass family. Different flours have different properties - some that are high in proteins (certain wheat flours) such as Gluten make better bread, others, better cakes, batters etc.

If the seeds of the reed are edible, you can make a flour. Determining how best to store and consume that flour will be more of a challenge.
 

British Red

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Dec 30, 2005
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No, all true grasses are edible. However common reeds are very effective at absorbing material from reed beds (which is why they are used in sewage treatments for example). Among the things they can absorb are heavy metals. I would be more concerned about the concentration in rhizomes than in seeds, but my point is that, whilst not toxic in and of themselves, they can become so by living in a toxic environment.
 

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