Foraging and Homelessness

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StigOfTheDump

Tenderfoot
Jan 26, 2007
52
0
57
Galloway
Squatters Handbook


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Squatters-H...63/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1288982643&sr=8-17

Only 1.50 and if you ever need to, this book will tell you most of what you need to know.

Actually, scratch that, if you get it from bottom you can get it for 2.00 including the postage, which is far better than the 4.25 it costs via Amazon.

http://www.squatter.org.uk/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=16
 
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Rumi

Forager
From May 1996 through to October 1997 I was heavily involved in the anti road campaigns around the country and surfed from squat to bender to caravan to tree house and a variety of other temporary accomodations, most of which were destroyed in one eviction or another. The only constant things I retained were my knife, bill hook, a small journal and climbing harness.

I renewed my clothes constantly as I also was bail dodging and avoiding other security agencies employed to gather evidence against us.

I am not going to say I was homeless or a rough sleeper, thought there were many of those who did end up living amongst us campaigners but one thing which I think all my compatriots would agree on is this, when the going got tough and the temperature got lower than 5 degrees C then the only people left in the tree houses defending the things that mattered were the hardcore campaigners who were there for their convictions rather than the free food, beer and drugs.. I have woken to dishes frozen solid in the washing up bowl, rope coils under a tree house stiff with frost.. The difference between us and the rough sleepers and brew crew was that we had a plan and were focused on the campaign.

The brew crew, and the lunched out people who these type of campaigns attracted were a huge drain on resources. They contributed nothing or next to nothing, would blag the camp to destruction sit round the fire and do nothing and start fights. I once saw 3 drunks sitting round a fire that had gone out bemoaning the fact that the fire had gone out and yet not 3m away was a pile of wood. One thing I noticed was that the further from town or the pub the camp the less idiots we had in camp and the easier it was to get on with defending the things which mattered.

The biggest wasters were always the quickest to accuse people like me for being a Fascist because we decided that we were going to evict the people who did nothing and made no contribution in any way.. funny that.
 

StigOfTheDump

Tenderfoot
Jan 26, 2007
52
0
57
Galloway
The biggest wasters were always the quickest to accuse people like me for being a Fascist because we decided that we were going to evict the people who did nothing and made no contribution in any way.. funny that.

Its cheap and easy to throw the fascist term around, and is pretty standard way of bullying people if you lack a better arguement.
 
May 19, 2010
9
0
Bristol
Nope, most ,ulit tool knives blades lock. That will get you a five stretch

Well, damn. I guess he got bloody lucky he never got caught with that, then!

Ok, first I have to admit that I have never (fortunately) had to deal with being homeless, or in prison, so this may sound very naive, and I apologise if it offends anyone, but surely spending time in prison which (presumably) would be warm, dry, and with meals included, would be a better option then sleeping rough, in below zero temperatures with no food or water.

Again I don't pretend to understand how people who find themselves in either situation, so I am sorry if this naive and unresearched comment offends.
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Mental health issues make life very hard for people- I should know, I have them myself albeit relativedly mild, and the simple truth is that a person in the throes of mental health issues who does not have a natural determination and stubbornness to survive may not be able to fight for the things that will help them, or even know how to find and access them.

I doubt there is a person on this earth who hasn't had some form of mental health issue at some point or other. The idea that unless we are in a state of perpetual happiness, we are in fact ill, is a construct of our culture. There are people with serious clinical issues who need medical treatment and there are people who are usually very happy who just occasionally get a bit unhappy and in the middle, is the rest of us. What those of us in the middle do about our issues, how we handle them, how we view them and how we get over them ...or not, is defined by our personality and our motivation, but also by our culture.

I was talking to a Bulgarian doctor last week about a patient who was suffering from mild depression. The doctor told me that in Bulgaria, there is no such clinical condition, depression is considered part of life and something normal for all people to experience and I believe there is some truth in that. In the wealthy west, we have the luxury of being able to be more generous, because our society can afford it, so we err on giving people the benefit of the doubt. Therin lies the problem. For every martyr to their illness, there is a malingerer. For every genuine sufferer, there is a cynical parasite and it is almost impossible to tell the difference between the two. This is what polarises opinion.

There are people who are on their knees and need all the support they can get and there are people who really just need a boot up the backside. We have all met both types. Which camp you are in on this debate, probably depends on your personal experiences and the people you have met, but to deny the views of the other camp in their entirety, is partisan, biassed and blinkered. Some people loose jobs because they are victims of circumstance, but some people loose jobs because they are lazy. Some people are genuinely ill, some people milk it. Some people are unemployed because they cant find work, some are unemployed because they prefer to ponse of others. It's impossible to work out who is who, so society takes a general stance. In Bulgaria, they deny some mental health problems that we accept, because that option eliminates the fraudsters and cheats for them - it's the cheap option. In the UK we support those issues (as far as money will allow), but that option allows for abuse of the health system and social services and oh boy, do they get abused. For those who pay the bills ...the working man, it's understandable that he may prefer the Bulgarian model, because he has dealt with his own mental health problems while somehow managing to hold down a job and pay tax ...and he feels resentment towards those who abuse the sweat of his brow and who really should be doing the same.

I dont know the answer, I dont think Bulgaria has the answer, but we are a mile away also. Too many sick people dont get what they should and too many heathy people get away with things they should not. I think if we are to make progress, then we need to acknowledge there are issues on both sides. That we are letting people down who should get help, but also that there are people getting help who should not be. We need to address both of those issues together.
 
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Tadpole

Full Member
Nov 12, 2005
2,842
21
59
Bristol
I dont know the answer, I dont think Bulgaria has the answer, but we are a mile away also. Too many sick people dont get what they should and too many heathy people get away with things they should not. I think if we are to make progress, then we need to acknowledge there are issues on both sides. That we are letting people down who should get help, but also that there are people getting help who should not be. We need to address both of those issues together.
Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer
William Blackstone 1760
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Can't see teaching bushcraft being much help to city dwelling types, not much wild food about other than in dustbins and skips. My wife is a senior nurse therapist and has organised courses for clients ranging from canoeing to archery to 'outward bound' and some have really enjoyed them while others thought them a complete waste of time (gardening-growing food though seems universally popular).

As for depression, its a very nasty bugger to develop and can be a killer as much as any physical illness and should not be treated lightly.
 

DaveBromley

Full Member
May 17, 2010
2,502
0
40
Manchester, England
Can't see teaching bushcraft being much help to city dwelling types, not much wild food about other than in dustbins and skips. My wife is a senior nurse therapist and has organised courses for clients ranging from canoeing to archery to 'outward bound' and some have really enjoyed them while others thought them a complete waste of time (gardening-growing food though seems universally popular).

As for depression, its a very nasty bugger to develop and can be a killer as much as any physical illness and should not be treated lightly.

I live in Manchester and there is wild food everywhere! Its just a matter of looking whether it be by the side of canals, parks or even in the woods that are on our doorsteps. My old man spent quite a bit of time on the streets due to alcoholism and he survived by catching pigeons in the centre of manchester and cooking them on the side of the canal under a bridge. If you want to you will do anything to survive

Dave
 

Martyn

Bushcrafter through and through
Aug 7, 2003
5,252
33
58
staffordshire
www.britishblades.com
Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer
William Blackstone 1760

Well Blackstone was talking about crime and punishment and in that regard a 10:1 ratio might be reasonable, but when it comes to healthcare and social services, I dont think we can afford it. In most of the rest of the world, if you dont work, you dont eat and if you cant pay for health care, then you dont get any. The international declaration of human rights says you have the right to free speech and the right to freedom of movement, but it doesnt say you have the right to have someone else pay your rent or that you have the right to have someone else pick up your medical bills.
 
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rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
I live in Manchester and there is wild food everywhere! Its just a matter of looking whether it be by the side of canals, parks or even in the woods that are on our doorsteps. My old man spent quite a bit of time on the streets due to alcoholism and he survived by catching pigeons in the centre of manchester and cooking them on the side of the canal under a bridge. If you want to you will do anything to survive

Dave

Apart from birds what other meat sources did your father have in a city apart from waste? What wild plants of any nutritional value that would in fact keep you alive all year round?

Sorry to hear of his problems.
 

Frogo

Forager
Jul 29, 2004
239
0
*********
If you anyone one wants an insight in to homelessness then you should read Marky Quinns guide to surviving life on the streets, there is definitely no time for foraging.
 

DaveBromley

Full Member
May 17, 2010
2,502
0
40
Manchester, England
Apart from birds what other meat sources did your father have in a city apart from waste? What wild plants of any nutritional value that would in fact keep you alive all year round?

Sorry to hear of his problems.

have a look at food for free by mr mabey, at least half of which cann be found on the side of canals and in local parks or areas of greenery. He lived on debdale reservoir which is about a 20 min walk from the town centre where you can fish (hobo style) for pike, perch, roach etc all of which taste lovely (from experience) and a lot of wild plants. Nobody said that forraginng would be the only source of food but it might give thhem a little extra.

Dave
 

jackcbr

Native
Sep 25, 2008
1,561
0
50
Gatwick, UK
www.pickleimages.co.uk
It does make me very angry that corporations think this is an acceptable way to act, just because they cant sell it doesn't mean it's not of use to someone else, why not just give it to local shelters, I'm sure they would only have to send them a letter saying first come first serve, then the shelter could distribute it as needed, It seems very hard minded by the stores if you ask me.

Sorry to say it is society that is partly to blame for the supermarkets position on "out of date" food. I use to help out at a charity event for the old and housebound from the inner city tower blocks in Portsmouth. We use to be well supported by the supermarkets with cakes and sandwiches that were slightly out of date. Then all of a sudden they stopped helping us. When asked they all said they couldn't help out anymore because someone had sued a chain for becoming ill from eating out of date produce that had been given away. Shame, as it now drains their funds providing food. Still get the venue for free though.
 

Rumi

Forager
To get an idea of what homelessness is like read Alexander Masters, Stuart, a life backwards.. This is a candid insight into the life of a chaotic person.

We think we have an insight into the life of someone who is homeless, that we perhaps have some answers as to how they could or should live and then we meet someone who is what is classed as having a "chaotic lifestyle" and then all those ideas are suddenly irrelevant.

In the street community there is a hierarchy, a social order if you will. The "chaotic lifestyle" person is at the bottom, despised, exploited, feared.. The people who fall into this catergory are usually addicted to alcohol, crack, heroine, all of these and more. They are extremely vulnerable, and among the hardest to reach. Bushcraft is not a solution for people in this situation, it is not even a useful therapeutic tool. The impetus of the chaotic lifestyle is driven by addiction, they live for the next "fix". Things happen to them but they have little understanding of cause and effect of the events in their lives. Most common is that they are usually heavily armed with an array of weapons which may include dirty needles and they are extremely paranoid.

One thing that unites people in this predicament is that they are difficult to reach, to communicate with and maintain a connection. They usually arrive at this point following a long history of physical and/or sexual abuse and so gaining and maintaining trust is also problematic.

The issues I have particular difficulty with is not the people we see at the shelters, but the people we do not see. The shelter have rules, the most important being that we do not tolerate violence against staff or other clients. So there are a fair amount of rough sleepers who have been barred from the various shelters, day centers and hostels and when the temperature drops below 5 degrees these people are most vulnerable. It is a vicious circle to which I fear there is no way out for some..
 

ged

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jul 16, 2009
4,976
13
In the woods if possible.
To get an idea of what homelessness is like... It is a vicious circle to which I fear there is no way out for some.

Insightful as ever, thank you.

I think you're on a battlefield. You know what 'triage' is about. You help who you can, if it's worth helping them. Some aren't going to make it. It isn't your fault, at least you're doing something useful.
 

Rumi

Forager
Not quite homelessness, but it demonstrates lack of planning and the general expectation that one can just help themselves to whatever they want.

I live on a boat and burn a mix of coal and wood. I buy the coal a few months in advance as the canal freezes and the coal boat cant get through the 3 inches of ice we have now. I also secure firewood in cord in the summer and collect it an stack it ready to be cut up and split for winter use. It all takes some planning, organisation and work. So when an empty boat is squatted and then I catch the new inhabitants trying to steal bags of coal off me, and then find that the living standing saplings around us are being systematically felled and burned in their fire I am none too pleased. What is worse is that the inhabitants then turn around and tell me that this what living off the land is all about..

I wonder who untied him and pushed him through the lock just before the canal froze?
 
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DaveBromley

Full Member
May 17, 2010
2,502
0
40
Manchester, England
lol good on you rumi

There is a certain element in the world who are takers they never give anything back and never spare a thought for how their actions effect others, it sounds like this clown however got his just deserts lol

Dave
 

Rumi

Forager
Its -8, when there has been a forecast predicting 0 or below for 3 consecutive nights the are I work in, the City provides additional funding for the shelter to provide emergency night shelter. This is basic, a mat and sleeping bag, cup of soup, sandwich and a couple of cups of tea and coffee. Thats it.. It can be a pretty intimidating environment. Its 1230, I have just got home from a shift.. 2 people decided not to stay after another kicked off, attempted to assault a staff member and was unceremoniously kicked out... it is still -8 outside.. Its all about choices..
 

jojo

Need to contact Admin...
Aug 16, 2006
2,630
4
England's most easterly point
There is a young guy who lives rough around here. I have seen him riding his bike all around the town. I fear he is one of those nearly un-reachable people. I have also seen him collecting a plastic bag that appeared to contain food that had been left at the back of a nearby Tesco Express. I hope so. That maybe a way to reach others with a somewhat practical mean to help.I think that people are buying some of the nearly out of date stuff and leaving it for him. I have not seen him recently though, that really cold spell must make life miserable for the poor guy. I also know that the town Pastors are aware of him now, my wife knows one of them and we talked to him about that young man. I hope they can reach him somehow.
 

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