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Follow the sheeple or head for the hills?

Discussion in 'Bushcraft and survival skills' started by Eric_Methven, Jul 2, 2007.

?

Bug out or follow the sheeple?

  1. I'd go to where the police sent me.

    16 vote(s)
    13.3%
  2. I'd grab my rucksack and go bushcrafting.

    104 vote(s)
    86.7%
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  1. w00dsmoke

    w00dsmoke New Member

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    To put a slightly different slant on things,
    in the latter stages of the cold war, most of Europe was geared up to fighting or just surviving the worst case MAD scenario. I in my youth was totally anti war yet decided to join the ROC in order to assist the population by ensuring my own survival first by having at least in theory a place in a small concrete hole in the ground.

    I've practised weekend long drills where the scenario was multiple groundburst and airbust attacks across the UK and as part of the UKWMO, it was my duty to survive and play a role no matter how small to help firstly the governement, military and lastly the civilian population by doing my job. The prospect of it actually happening for real was very real us. It was a terrible time to live through. But it taught me that in any major event that threatened the general population, then their needs were ultimately last and although on paper there were very minor plans in place to assist the population, the sad fact was that it was deemed unrealistic/expensive to have a civil defence force. Sure the Scottish Home and Health department on paper stockpiled respirators for some of the population near Stirling and they had various stockpiles from the EU market such as butter and corned beef in warehouses throughout the land. But in the end, the population were advised to stay at home. Why? To keep the roads clear for the military and to make it easier to govern a terrified population. NO OTHER REASON . YOUR WELFARE WAS NOT PARAMOUNT TO THE GOVERNMENT!

    The only other assistance that the governement said it would provide would be the green goddesses to put out fires. Fire Stations were advised to relocate their vehicles and equipment to secret holding places (layby's in sheltered Glens), the police were to stay by the towns and maintain order aswell as to relocate to key bases and sensetive sites.
    Nurses and doctors were to stay in their hospitals. The list goes on.
    Today the situation is even worse, the government do not even have regional survivable command and control centres like the old disbanded RSG's that are now museums.

    So at the end of the day in any event be it a terrorist attack, breakdown of somekind, whatever. I am preparing to protect my immediate family in whatever and reasonable way I can and to:censored: with what the government wants us to do for the reasons previously explored. I think for folk to do this then it's their right to do so and in no way can it be seen as some romantic survivalist fantasy. I hope the brutal realities of a breakdown never happens, it's my worst nightmare but until we have society that is as responsible to it's citizens like many European countries then I will carry on and prepare.[/FONT="Comic Sans MS"]
     
  2. Eric_Methven

    Eric_Methven Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Nobody's talking about invading the hills, just finding somewhere safe for the family for a few days.

    Eric
     
  3. Greg

    Greg Full Member

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    I think at present (And this is only my opinion!) that the greatest threat at the moment is a terrorist attack on a major city with a dirty bomb, and although the government are seen to be carrying out various exercises I truly believe that if it happened there would be pandomodiem with mass panic amongst the populace which would seriously overwhelm any emergency services no matter how prepared they think they are. So finding and preparing somewhere safe to move to prior to something like this happening IMO would be a sound exercise.
     
  4. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    Highly unlikley....

    ....But of course it could be a purely imaginary attack, much cheaper and harder to defend against.
     
  5. wingstoo

    wingstoo Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    Hi Tengu,

    Highly unlikely?

    I know, it's the Sun...
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007270789,00.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6044938.stm

    Far fetched?

    LS
     
  6. Eric_Methven

    Eric_Methven Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    It's only unlikely until someone tries it. Even an attempt at a dirty bomb will cause localised panic. The real thing, strategically placed in centres of high occupation will cause mass panic. I don't think 'if', but 'when'.

    Eric
     
  7. mr dazzler

    mr dazzler Native

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    That is a fair point. I mean if folks head off to the hills, are they still all going to get landowners permissions :lmao: :rolleyes: ? Will the folks who already live and work there take kindly to dribs and drabs of furtive people (or worse) roaming on their land taking fish and game, or forcibly taking it off anyone that does have anything useful, when they may well be attempting to do the same thing on there own land?? Isnt it realistic actually to assume that LOTS of people (not just bush crafters, they wont have a monopoly) will try to run to the hills, especially if a nuclear suitcase went off in the city and evryone wanted to get away from the aftermath. If anyone was still alive that is :confused: , especially if there was more than one went off or yet another was imminent so you have mass exoduses etc, and that all of a sudden there will be a surge of demand on natural resources (especially water reservoirs) and that the "wilderness" (I dont think there is such a thing in the UK) will get rather crowded? Or is it just the case that its evry man for themself, those resources are MINE if I get them first, ##### the rest? :lmao: Hungry people do crazy things (I mean really hungry and desperate in a real dynamic panic flight or fight root hog or die situation) Or will the police/military impose military rule and shoot to kill anyone trying to leave or loot etc?
     
  8. w00dsmoke

    w00dsmoke New Member

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    Justy out of curiosity :D

    does anyone know about the strategic steam reserve that was denied for years? It was a massive reserve of steam locomotives kept in a huge ex plane factory underground near Bath. Apaprently only steam trains with no electronics to bugger up with the elctromagnetic pulse of a nuclear bomb could survive and be used to transport troops/goods across country if any lines remained. They were all cut up and smelted down in the 90's.

    And does anyone know about the Computer Centre Corsham apparent new home of a government citadel underground called COBRA. Incidently COBRA is the new name of the government emergency planning committee...:D
     
  9. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    Please dont go into Box tunnel.....
     
  10. Brendan

    Brendan Nomad

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    I agree Eric and it wouldn't surprise me if we saw a dirty bomb attack in the USA within the next 3 months.
    Has any one else noticed whenever there is a major attack the government is usually running exercises for just such an attack on the same day at the same time for the same location! True for 9/11 (NORAD) and 7/7 (Visor Consultants), go figure! It starts to ring alarm bells with me especially when you consider the previous false flag operations now admitted by the freedom of information act (Northwoods, Lavon, Ajax etc)
     
  11. Eric_Methven

    Eric_Methven Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    There are also supposed to be a large number of 'suitcase nukes' gone missing from Soviet locations. They are somewhere and someone has access to them. It's just a waiting game right now. I don't care if you all think I'm talking twaddle, it's possible it could happen (fact), there are some really nasty people out there who don't like us and want to kill us (fact). Put the two together when they think the time is right and BOOM.

    Even if suitcase nukes are not available to terrorists, there's plenty of radioactive waste knocking about in hospitals. And we now know that certain doctors working in hospitals are sympathetic to certain extremist organisations. Yup, it's just a matter of time. (And yes, it's all doom and gloom, but I'm not letting it get me down, I just carry on as normal happy in the knowledge that what I know about stuff and having a preparedness mindset will stand me in better stead than Joe Average).

    Eric
     
  12. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

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    Sheesh, here we go again. :rolleyes:
     
  13. BlackPacker

    BlackPacker Member

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    Angus, good call. As one of those hill dwellers, living at the road's end in a gated enclave amongst about 60 people, I will say that I have no say on who gets to my house. My closest friends and family all have maps here, along with various other important emergency info. On the sheet, I tell them to contact me as soon as they can, so I can notify my neighbors that they are on the way. That said, almost all of my neighbors are outlaws of one sort or another, and they do have gardens, guard dogs and guns.

    On a different note, earlier I mentioned the fact that it seems everyone on the hill likes it when the roads get blocked. On Saturday night, my fiance phoned me from the main gate to tell the that a two foot wide oak was blocking the road out. Just as I hung up, my phone rang again. One of my neighbors had heard me drive by (my truck makes a very distinguishable noise) and was inviting me to a party. I told him about the tree, and before I could borrow a chainsaw from the neighbor on the otherside of the tree, seven guys showed up in 4x4s, ATVs and a dirt bike, with a chainsaw with a three foot bar. Twenty minutes later, and LOTS of beer, the road was clear and various neighbors were getting their own saws to cut the refuse into firewood. This morning all that remained was saw dust and drag marks.

    Yeah, If there is an emergency, I'll be staying put.
     
  14. mr dazzler

    mr dazzler Native

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    This is the unpalatable truth as far as terrorists are concerned. And there seems to be 2 extreme ways of responce to it.

    Remain in denial with a BBC humanist type mindset:-its OUR fault these otherwise "innocent" people want to attack us with bombs &c, because of OUR leaders and their horrid foreign policy's, if only WE would leave them alone THEY would respect and love us and not want to attack us :lmao: :rolleyes: As if giving the school bully your pocket money will make him go away
    Or adopt the supremacist survivalist trust no one mindset, #### every one else, its me me me. :bandit:
     
  15. wingstoo

    wingstoo Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    I was sent this a while back and today is a good day to put it here, I try to avoid the subject on this site having been slapped down over it on previous occassions.

    LS

     
  16. Greg

    Greg Full Member

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    Another possibility is a petrol tanker wagon with its temperature and pressure relief valves closed, if one of these is left out in the hot sun for just a few hours you can create what is known as a BLEVE - Boiling Liquid Evaporating Vapour Explosion which has an overpressure that is powerful enough to flattern (to use an american expression) several city blocks with just one vehicle so imagine if two or three were situated somewhere populated. It would also be like letting loose with the biggest flame thrower you could imagine.
    Don't forget the most powerful non-nuclear weapon in the american arsenal is an air burst petrol bomb. SCARY!
    Now this is where we are probably quite lucky in this country, although we do have some scorchingly hot days they are few and far between but for our cousins over the water in the southern states where it can get very hot it could be a viable weapon to be used by the terrorist.
    But like Eric says we just have to accept that these threats are viable and have the confidence to know that we are in some way mentally and physically prepared to deal with the outcome of one or more of these threats.
     
  17. Sleepy Weasel

    Sleepy Weasel Forager

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    Hi Guys
    My first instinct would be to grab the boy, the bergen and the missus, in that order, throw them all in the Landy and bugger off to some high ground and settle in.

    Then the calm and responsible side of me has a think and I would first tell the authorities my plan, assure them that I, and my family would be perfectly safe and will continue to check in at regular intervals. The I would grab the boy, bergen and missus and load the Landy, bugger off to some high ground and settle in.

    Then the Mountain Rescue side of me has another think and goes, Right, load the missus and the boy on to the bus so at least I know they'll be safe, then report in to the team to see if I we'reneeded to help out anywhere.

    Some friends of mine have what they call a zombie scenario, which they use to rate people they meet, would they be zombie fodder or zombie fighter? I think they might be taking it too seriously!

    Sheeple, good word, must start using it more often.
     
  18. Womble

    Womble Native

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    Apologies to everyone else here, but I'm agreeing with Martyn.
     
  19. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    I still dont believe this nonsense about terrorists.

    I have freinds who travel regularly in the Middle East, they say that things are so fragmented there there is not the organisation for anything serious.

    All that may happen is a lucky attack. (as we have seen.)

    If you had a suitcase nuke, you would save it for something interesting.

    I had another friend who died many years ago. he died eventually from injuries sustained by failed bomb disposal.

    He did a lot of this work...no publicity though the threat was very real. but the IRA were organised and getting a lot of support from outside.

    (not all of the devices were very sophisticated though)

    I think he must be laughing now.

    (he took preparedness seriously though, and I remember what he said to me)
     
  20. Eric_Methven

    Eric_Methven Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

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    It's an emotive topic, and it's gone completely off track, but I'm not surprised it's started up again. I suspect it will continue to until one of the mods locks it down (hint, hint).

    Martyn, if it bothers you that much why even click on the link? You obviously think we're nutters talking about such stuff. (Thinks: pot, kettle, black, there are probably more people in 'normal' society who'd think someone who dedicated themselves to collecting knives, and has even built a website where they are drooled and fawned over is the nutter) There's a reason I don't post over on BB. To me a knife is just a simple tool, there to do a job - end of! I don't glorify them, worship or praise them. I don't come onto BB and deride them and the people who choose to post there. Each to his own, different strokes and all that.

    Eric
     
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