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Everest 2019

Discussion in 'Bushcraft Chatter' started by Bishop, May 24, 2019.

  1. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    But to be honest, our own countries ( UK and Cayman) have quite abysmal record of recycling and other environmrntsl issues compared to countries with a similar economical level, so even thinking that the country or countries where the camps are, should provide environmentally neutral facilities is not realistic.
     
  2. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    My waste is negligible. Yes I pay rates for bin collection but it goes out once every two months half full despite fortnightly collection and I have the small household bin to boot. Recycling goes out once a month despite weekly collection. Again usualy half full. Anything else goes to charity shops or a boot sale for reuse. So realy I should be paying less for my rubbish collection :)
    Look at it another way. Everest is supposed to be a sacred mountain. Would you allow such desecration of your particular sacred site... for instance st pauls cathedral or whatever it happens to be?
    The point is we ALL need to do our bit and encourage others to do the same rather than saying what's the point of me doing it if you are not. Got to start somewhere or it just goes on ad finitum untill things become a slum then who do you blame? Stop the blame game and get on with being the best example you can be even if like me you are not perfect. Encourage less waste and you'll have less littering.
     
  3. Broch

    Broch Full Member

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    I agree; I've been 'not going to Everest' for as long as I can remember :)
     
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  4. Tiley

    Tiley Full Member

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    The lure of an expedition to the highest point on the planet is understandable. Sadly, gone are the days when you underwent some sort of 'apprenticeship' in the Alps and/or the Andes, prior to going to Nepal. An acquaintance called me up a few years ago. He had paid for and was about to go on a commercial expedition to Gasherbrum I and he wanted to know how to tie on. I was utterly gobsmacked that this man, who labelled himself as a 'mountaineer', did not even know how to tie on to his harness! He showed up at my house with said harness, still in its plastic bag and unused; we unpacked it and I showed him how to put it on and adjust it and then, how to tie on to a rope. In the event, he didn't summit on Gasherbrum - an attack of diarrhoea on the trip meant that he lost so much weight that he didn't have the reserves for the climb itself.

    My point is that commercial expedition companies are providing those with the wherewithal to embark on serious and hazardous adventures. The companies are following the commercial imperative to make money; some will also do works to improve the lot of the local people but, ultimately, the fees paid go into the pockets of the Nepalese government. The income is valuable and so the government is happy to issue permits to all and sundry, irrespective of the experience and abilities of the climbing team attempting the hill. So, in a culture that is keen to attach blame when things go wrong, who do we blame: the Nepalese government for issuing too many permits or the commercial companies for taking hopelessly inexperienced climbers on to an objectively dangerous hill?

    As for the rubbish, it is simple: you brought it in, you carry it out. The ambition there is not to deprive the local population of a (pretty revolting, menial) job but to show respect to the peerlessly beautiful and very fragile mountain environment which you, as a climber, have enjoyed during your stay. It is an embarrassing and repellent reflection on contemporary, largely Western society that they are not generous enough to tote out their own trash from their camps on the hill and base camp. Although getting it back to home country would be the ideal, even ferrying it down and out of the mountainous area would be a step in the right direction.

    With the number of people now attempting Everest increasing, we are likely to hear of more accidents and fatalities. But these can happen anywhere: recently, a twenty-something British climber was killed on the Hornli Ridge on the Matterhorn. He was hit by a block, dislodged by another climber, and fell 300 metres to his death. It will not be long before careless footwork on mountains in the Greater Ranges starts to cause more and similar accidents and the cause will be the burgeoning number of people, endeavouring to complete their tick-lists.

    Personally, I have never had any desire to attempt Everest or even go near it; my own interests, after 25 Alpine seasons and 4 bigger expeditions to the Pamirs, Tien Shan and Andes, lie with Kanchenjunga and/or Dhaulagiri... And, if I ever get the chance to attempt either, I will make it a point of principle to remove the rubbish I generate on the trip.
     
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  5. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Woodygirl, yes, but you STILL have rubbish that is collected.
    You pay - it gets collected.
    They pay - nothing is done.
    (let us not go into fairness of paying - too a hot political potato for our tender hands! :) )

    Not even toilets are provided as far as I am aware!! Is that not disgusting?

    Would I as state allow desecration of a holy object? no, absolutely not.
    That state does. it is THEIR Holy Mountain, and they allow it.
    Do you see what I am trying to say?

    Why blame the tourists ( and workers) ? Blame a state that is only interested in pocketing as much money as they can, thinking ' sod the welfare and safety of the workers, sod the safety of the tourists, sod the environment'.

    Broch, you buy the stuff online, shops, supermarkets. Carry it to the 'point of consumption' (home) .
    Why do you not carry it back? With your thinking you should, but no, you put it in provided bins at home!

    They should be able to do the same!


    I agree fully to the environmental part, but we as individuals can only do so much. It has to start at production, and permeate the whole society.
     
    #85 Janne, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  6. Woody girl

    Woody girl Full Member

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    Another point in the pollution game is the flights to get there in the first place. I will not fly again ever. I want my carbon footprint to be as low as possible. It will never be zero but I can only do my best.
    If I could afford it is would have a wind turbine and solar electric and water heating panels. A grey water system with reeds. Collect and filter rainwater for my water needs........ dream on ......but that is how we should be going if we want a cleaner stable world. The trouble is once initial costs are paid there is no profit for big business.
     
  7. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    flying produces less environmental 'crap' than a motorbike.
    Per kilo, per kilometer.

    Do not forget that the hold is full of goods that are transported to destination, like letters, foods, other items, in addition to the passengers and their bags.
    That stuff still needs to be transported.

    But, my brain tells me, do people in Cayman really, really need to eat apples from Chile?
    Do people in Britain really, really need to eat apples from New Zealand?

    No. Eat local. British. Or from France.

    It is the whole worldwide commerce and supply of goods that is sick. That will change Earth.
    Your locally (UK) produced energy bar contains ingredients shipped from all around the world. Why?
     
  8. Broch

    Broch Full Member

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    Agreed; food miles should be exponentially taxed worldwide. :)
     
  9. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    You drink Orange Juice?

    One of my friends is in shipping. Tankers. Not for fueloil, but other liquids like palm oil, Apple juice, Orange juice, liquids like that. ( in fruit juice - refrigerated to close to 0 C.

    Years ago, he told me something crazy.
    He gets a shipment from Brazil to Rotterdam,Europe, semi frozen almost concentrated Orange Juice. Approaching Rotterdam, the ship gets a call (new owner of the juice), to change course towards Los Angeles. Halfway though Panama Canal, a new owner, new change of course. To Napoli in Italy. Ship turns around, docks in Napoli, starts pumping out the Orange slush, when it gets the order to pump the stuff back, and go to Stockholm in Sweden. New owner.

    Healthy Orange juice. Sure!
    With a Carbon footprint that makes you puke.

    Organic, Fairtrade. Fine.
    But what about environmental impact? Carbon footprint?

    IMO that is far, far more important.
     
  10. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Everything pales in comparison of the future visits people will be able to do to ISS.
    UKP 30000 a night, up to 30 days, emissions to get up there out of this world.......

    You sitting in a cabin together with 300 people on the way to Turkey for a two weeker is nothing....
     
  11. snappingturtle

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    Would love to go to Everest, but for one I would never summit, the disgust I would feel at all the trash left around, would just have me cleaning up the whole time, and the other thing its stopped being the lonely alien environment I would want it to still be.
     
  12. Tengu

    Tengu Full Member

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    I agree that Everest is a Holy mountain...I as an individual (who has never been near a real mountain) have great interest in Mountain Religion.

    But sadly, the local people put money over this.

    No climbers are allowed in Bhutan (yet)

    If I was to ever travel in the Himalayas, I would go to Bhutan. So much for an Archaeologist to do!
     
  13. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    I wonder what water they use for drinking in those camps?
    Snowmelt - from filthy snow?
     
  14. snappingturtle

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    We have little ones Tengu, get yourself to wales! The feeling of elevation, your mind in focus all the bs gone, the song of a bird carried on the kiss or roar of wind. No matter if you climb or hike the highlands of the world are some thing else!
     
  15. Broch

    Broch Full Member

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    I once took a Frenchman on a mountain backpack up the Glyders; he was used to the Alps and the Pyrenees. He exclaimed "I never realised you had such beautiful mountain landscape in the UK" (you have to imagine the French accent :) ).

    The reality is that our mountains are very old and have been eroded but they start from a long way down because the valleys are eroded as well so they are quite majestic. Just give Snowdon a miss; if ever there was a desecrated mountain that is it :(

    Mind you, people die every year on the Snowdonia range as well! In some years, in the past and because of visitor numbers, the death toll on Snowdon was higher than Everest!
     
    #95 Broch, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
  16. snappingturtle

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    I agree with the French man! got the next 3 weeks off so the Brecons call, so stoked! and Snowden maybe could be nicer to go in the off season...we shall see!
     
  17. Broch

    Broch Full Member

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    Have a go at Glyder Fach and Glyder Fawr instead (or as well)! Then, very carefully because it's deadly, walk the Tryfan ridge (pronounced tru (as in truck) van).
     
  18. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Maybe Off Topic, but what I have seen many, many times over the years are people that way too much, rush like mad to get to a predermined point, and do not enjoy the surroundings.
    They stare down onto the path, bent over by the weight. Never stop but just unhook the waterbottle and gulp while they are stressing forward.

    Those Himalaya trekkers, what pleasure do they get out of it? I do not think much. Painful, crowded, no oxygen so brain hardly works, muscles in pain due to exertion and lack of Oxygen, then when they reach the top a selfie.

    Pointless or what?

    My most memorable moments were reaching a top in the Swedish/Norwegian mountains, sitting down, having a brew, watching, observing.
    Those mountains are low.

    It has now become a hobby in Scandinavia doing these walks. You walk up, have a drink of some sort, enjoy, then walk down . Civilized. Son does it every time he is up there.
     
  19. Broch

    Broch Full Member

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    I have spent hours at the top of some of the mountains I have walked up (note, walked, not climbed) - the journey is important but sitting, pausing, and taking it all in is fundamental to experiencing it IMHO.
     
    #99 Broch, Jun 7, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
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  20. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

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    Well, that is the point, is it not?
    I think all this 'selfie' business is a stupid fad. In 40 years time, will you have the interest to look on the thousands of 'photos' with you staring stupidly into the camera with a semi blurry background?

    Thousands of photos digitally altered where Shreck looks like Marlin the Clownfish ( from Finding Nemo), with all the bits being poshed out and exposed?
    Pathetic.
     

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