doomsdayers/preppers

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Large Sack

Settler
May 24, 2010
665
0
Dorset
Did none of you ever watch 'Survivors'? either in the 70s or the recent BBC series? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p005tq95

A lot of what some of you are talking about was shown (sometimes quite graphically).

And, not that I am preaching...but, for those of you that advocate stealing or taking charge of anything...anything at all, that is the first step down a very rocky road my friends.

Sack

BBC
1970s series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors
2008 - 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors_(2008_TV_series)
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Did none of you ever watch 'Survivors'? either in the 70s or the recent BBC series? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p005tq95

A lot of what some of you are talking about was shown (sometimes quite graphically).

And, not that I am preaching...but, for those of you that advocate stealing or taking charge of anything...anything at all, that is the first step down a very rocky road my friends.

Sack

BBC
1970s series http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors
2008 - 2010 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivors_(2008_TV_series)

Now your talking :) I love the original 3 series, much better IMO than the awful remake. Take a look on veoh :)

As for taking stuff, Its called 'going for a bimble' on some forums.
 
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TeeDee

Full Member
Nov 6, 2008
10,451
3,654
50
Exeter
Sorry, lads, I scoured the Google Scholar and could not find it. I'm kicking myself for not having a hard copy of that.

Still, the logic makes sense.

Erm , I don't know if it does ( not wishing to disagree !! ) 1m x 1m x 1m of sand has more protein than an Entire Cow?????

Sorry , No Linky - No Believe.

Happy to be proven wrong , but I do need proof.
 

gliderrider

Forager
Oct 26, 2011
185
0
Derbyshire, UK
If he means the life in the sand like crabs, insects etc, maybe it does, but not the sand itself. And since a lot of the life is so small you need a microscope to see it, I dont think it'll be that practical.
 

BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
3
Lanarkshire
Sorry, lads, I scoured the Google Scholar and could not find it. I'm kicking myself for not having a hard copy of that.

Still, the logic makes sense.

Not to me it doesn't. There is no conspiracy theory at play, so if it were true we'd be harvesting self sustaining coastline and not spending a relative fortune on raising cattle and setting land aside for beefstock.

Not having a dig at you friend, but it sounds like yet another load of utter internet hogwash masquerading as fact.

Survival situation, give me a cow in my field of vision rather than nearly a ton of sand (which is what you described) any day of the week.
 
Not having a dig at you friend, but it sounds like yet another load of utter internet hogwash masquerading as fact.

You are absolutely correct. Facts without scientific foundation is irrelevant.

People harvest cow because no one is willing to eat what is available in 1 cubic meter of sand.

In my survival courses I have my students harvest limpets and seaweed. No one is willing to say that they enjoy the taste. But both are high in nutrients.
 

BillyBlade

Settler
Jul 27, 2011
748
3
Lanarkshire
You are absolutely correct. Facts without scientific foundation is irrelevant.

People harvest cow because no one is willing to eat what is available in 1 cubic meter of sand.

In my survival courses I have my students harvest limpets and seaweed. No one is willing to say that they enjoy the taste. But both are high in nutrients.

It's not that no one is willing to eat the protein that is found (or otherwise) in one cubic meter of sand, it's the point that it is nowhere near the claim of the same as found in a cow.

Were this protein there, it would be harvested for pet food etc, if it could not be turned into useful and acceptable human grade foodstuffs that is. Growing up in a country area I've seen first hand how absolutely nothing is wasted in the food production chain, from the food we as humans eat down to the grades that are bleached and washed and find themselves in pet foods etc.

Regards survival courses, well, I've done three over the last 30 years that all encompased seashore survival, and beyond the usual suspects of rock crab, seaweed mussels etc, thats been it. I've NEVER heard of any protein, harvestable or otherwise, to be found in sand.

Like I said, I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at the 99% of the internet which is populated as fact and regurgitated as the same without shred one of evidence to back it up. It annoys me, and it's dangerous.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
Can't see what's wrong with joining the haves of officialdom for a period in an emergency, who knows you might even do some good for your fellow person as well as for yourself.

Seashore is stuffed full of nutrients and I would rather eat mussels and winkles than grubs and worms which is probably a culturally acquired taste but there it is. Plus the prospects of fish and seaweed and samphire etc are delightful. When it isn't being mined to death the sea is ludicrously abundant. I have my dinghy on a secluded foreshore now and know of sea access only coves etc.

Do these extreme prepper/hoarders not think that delivery drivers and store workers wouldn't remember their addresses?

Perhaps it is atavistic but I feel deep down that any fully human beingought to be able to build and manage a boat or a canoe and a bow, build a fire etc etc. with appropriate regional variations. Otherwise they are just a baby sucking on the teat of civilisation.
 
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boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
Did think that Survivors missed a trick not having much to do with water except for blowing up a narrow boat and rowing the wrong way to visit a Vet.
 

nuggets

Native
Jan 31, 2010
1,070
0
england
can we start a book on here ?? Whats the odds of the 2012 doomsday ever happening ?? :)

From the mayan calendar ,Nostradamus and old mother shipton ???? who is the smart money backing ???? :) :)
 

mrcharly

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 25, 2011
3,257
44
North Yorkshire, UK
Show me, show me links on how to do all these things?
Links? I already know how to do all these things. I work for an electronics company, I've built and repaired all sorts of things, from house engineering to wiring up boats with DC and AC circuits. 1kW systems scale up - the main problems are with maintaining batteries - they aren't easy to look after when you are looking at daily use for years - I've lived off-grid for years at a time with a family. I grew up in australia on a farm that was off-grid where we relied on windmills to pump up our drinking water.
 

rik_uk3

Banned
Jun 10, 2006
13,320
24
69
south wales
Problem with coastline shell fish is they generally are high protein low fat.

There was a breakdown of their food value here, to get the same food value as a small deer you would need to eat something daft like 30,000 cockles/winkles (can't remember the exact number).
 

Large Sack

Settler
May 24, 2010
665
0
Dorset
Protein is fine guys, but without everything else...you would die. If you ate nothing but rabbit you would die. Sounds odd, but true. A balanced diet is essential for longevity.
 

moocher

Full Member
Mar 26, 2006
642
97
49
Dorset
wow shocked and glad this threads still going.

im thinking of storing surplus food in our second loft any ideas on a list of non perishables or suitable sites/forums.

at the moment i dont know the temperatures it gets to in there as havent lived here in the summer.
 

santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
Problem with coastline shell fish is they generally are high protein low fat.

There was a breakdown of their food value here, to get the same food value as a small deer you would need to eat something daft like 30,000 cockles/winkles (can't remember the exact number).

"According to the American Heart Association, individuals who have high levels of triglycerides should aim for consumption of 2 to 4 g of omega-3 fatty acids daily. If you don't have a pre-existing health condition, two servings of omega-3 rich fish or shellfish will provide the recommended daily amount. Excess consumption of omega-3 fatty acids in supplement form, above 3 g daily, should be taken under the guidance of your physician. Large amounts of these fats can have an anticoagulant effect, causing impaired clotting."

Following is a list of shellfish and the amount of Omega 3 they contain per serving:

Shrimp = 0.15g-0.29g
Dungeness Crab = 0.24g per 3 ounce serving
Lobster = 0.07g-0.46g
Oysters (Pacific oysters anyway) contain a full daily recommended intake in a single 3 ounce serving!
Clams = 0.25g per 3 ounce serving
Scallops = 0.18g-0.34g per 3 ounce serving

The real problems with a straight seafood (and/or freshwater fish) diet is the risk from elevated mercury levels.

References

University of Maryland: Omega-3 Fatty Acids
American Heart Association: Fish, Levels of Mercury and Omega-3 Fatty Acids
Cleveland Clinic: The power of Fish
Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University: Essential Fatty Acids


BTW. Deer (and all game except waterfowl) is notoriously lean.
 
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santaman2000

M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)
Jan 15, 2011
16,909
1,114
67
Florida
...im thinking of storing surplus food in our second loft any ideas on a list of non perishables or suitable sites/forums...

Rice and dried beans. Together they're a good source of carbohydrates, fiber, and proteins as well as some vitamins and minerals. Still not a complete diet though as it's still lacking in other minerals and vitamins (and fat as mentioned in earlier posts)

As for a suitable link, it depends on what your prepping for. If you're realistically prepping for short (3 weeks or less) interruptions such as from weather or natural disasters then look up the American Red Cross or FEMA and peruse their suggestions for hurricane preparedness. Also if this is the case then forget about the rice and dried beans (they need water and a way to cook them) and concentrate more on items that take little or no cooking/preparation such as canned goods. Oh, yes. Don't forget a non-electric can opener!
 
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susi

Nomad
Jul 23, 2008
421
0
Finland
What I find realy sad is that today it is impossible to live as a hunter-gatheres live style in the UK as we have killed of native animals and distroyed habitat to the point the it is no longer possibe to live in the wild in the UK It is still possible in northen Europe ....snip

Really? What do you base that statement on? It would theoretically be possible to live as a hunter-gatherer in Northern Europe if there was a huge reduction in population. But that statement also rings true for the UK.



I find it interesting that many people in the US have the idea that they would survive by hunting.

Absolutely agree :) You can hear the same thing in the UK, many people think they can grab their air rifle and a tin of pellets and somehow "live off the land". I did some rough calculations once, on some forum or other (maybe even here), and the UK rabbit population would be wiped out within a week or two (there is about one rabbit for every two people and millions of weapons capable of reducing this number very quickly). Even here in Finland, with its low population density, hunting seasons are strictly controlled to prevent extinction of game species. If the world ends, the controls may go, and we all starve anyway (or eat potatoes :) )
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
Protein is fine guys, but without everything else...you would die. If you ate nothing but rabbit you would die. Sounds odd, but true. A balanced diet is essential for longevity.
Of course but seaweed and foraged land plants would help enormously, there is a population of seals nearby and there is plenty of fat on them. One seal would go a long way. OK they could be over-exploited but then any resource could be.

Tragedy of the Irish famine was fisherman selling their boats to buy a few measly potatoes when they had resources to live well to hand.
 

boatman

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 20, 2007
2,444
4
77
Cornwall
I first came across the equivalence of X thousand shellfish to one deer years ago when reading about the Danish Stone Age Midden people but the equivalence is a fallacy. Shellfish are far more like fruit that is very nearly always in season than hunted meat. Thus a pound of shellfish meat at, say. a quarter of an ounce for each cockle or whatever is 48 to the pound thus to gather a pound of "meat" for each of a family of four one would need to collect 200 cockles, something we used to do easily when holidaying on the east coast of England. As the shellfish is always there except for the spawning season there is no real need to preserve it.

Our family of four with their deer carcase of, say. one hundred pounds, could eat it in 25 days at the same ration as for shellfish, if it would keep which it probably wouldn't.

Crude and questionable figures but the concept is correct.
 

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