Don't shoot, I'm only the piano player

[bigjackbrass]

I've recently been keeping my head down and reading rather than replying. After a little prodding from an anonymous source, however, I thought that I might air an observation.

The BushcraftUK forum is a marvellous opportunity to share knowledge, to learn the unexpected and to get considered answers to those nagging damnfool questions we have all felt embarrassed about asking elsewhere. It is, on the whole, a model of its type. I can't help noticing, though, that recently it seems to be more about what to buy than how to do. The gear seems to be the primary focus, rather than the woodcraft.

New members frequently ask questions on topics that have been thoroughly explored in the past, which suggests that some reorganisation might be needed to put the more common topics into a series of more handy articles. Please note that I am absolutely not trying to exclude anyone or make this a place where a dozen "old hands" hold court, but in many instances previously posted answers have been exceptionally detailed, and running through everything again does seem a bit redundant. Nobody should be criticised for asking a question, but perhaps we all need a little help to better find the information already on the site.

I am far from being a woodcraft expert. Very far indeed. Consequently I lack the knowledge to frequently post useful tips and suggestions on fresh topics in order to guide and stimulate an exchange of information, but between us I think that we can keep new and varied ideas going without too much strain. It already happens much of the time, but all too often I find myself wondering if we are not missing the point somehow, neglecting a wonderful opportunity, by concentrating so heavily on the material odds and ends, almost the antithesis of woodcraft. Of course, since so many people post on gear matters, I might simply be out of step. I am guilty of concentrating on kit too, as anyone can check by reviewing a few of my posts, and I hope that I can veer away a little from the easy option and stretch myself with more questions about the natural world and less about the things we take into it. Perhaps I need to surface from White and Wilder and Kephart a bit more often and consult the living.

Right, rant / musing over, soapbox carefully stowed. Fire at will.

 

[Andy]

we should do a weekend camp where we have to have the least value of kit. how much do you reackon you could get it down to?

 

[Adi007]

You raise some very good points there.

A forum is a very "organic" thing. As people participate it tends to take on the personality and views of the contributors. As contributors come and go, the topics of discussion and the focus of the forum changes. Discussions come and go with the seasons and mood.

The other thing about a forum is that it resembles closely media like TV and radio in that a lot of the time you'll find stuff that is of interest to you, whereas othertimes you'll have to change channel or even switch off for a while - there's nothing wrong with that (just remember to come back!).

I can see why it's easier for people to talk about kit than it is to talk about their experiences or ideas or techniques. An idea seems to exist where people thing that they need to be qualified or experienced to talk about the outdoors and how to live and work with nature - I don't believe that. For millions of years we've been creatures that have had to be at one with nature and have only lived in this "urbanized" stage for a blink of an eye. We're all, by virtue of being here right now, qualified to talk about something we saw or something that worked for us and we can all learn from that and take away something from this virtual campfire and apply it next time we're outdoors. No matter what level of experience anyone has, they have something that they can share ... and if they can't think of anything, they can ask a question!

I just want to add that there are some great folks here at BCUK and I feel both privileged and humbled to be able to sip from the same watering hole as them!

Just my random thoughts ...

 

[al]

i`ll stand next to you and be fired at big jack :-D

 

[bigjackbrass]

An idea seems to exist where people thing that they need to be qualified or experienced to talk about the outdoors and how to live and work with nature.

Very true, but what seems a greater shame to me is that so many of us apparently believe that unless we have the 'best' kit then we cannot possibly venture out. Perhaps it's down to confidence. I don't believe that the important point is the amount or cost of your gear, simply that it does the job under the circumstances. Beyond that everyone will change things to suit their preferences as they grow in experience. Several of the questions I have seen on the forum reflect a fear of either some sort of ridicule or else a genuine belief that the outdoors is a very, very bad place and that certain bits of kit will act like armour against the wilds.

A forum should be organic, and of course it should not reflect the tastes of one person exclusively (certainly not my tastes!). Learning things outside of one's field is half the joy. Hopefully there was a point to my post beyond simply venting a vague frustration I have now and then, but I would not want anyone to think that I am trying to dictate the shape of the forum.

 

[bigjackbrass]

i`ll stand next to you and be fired at big jack :-D

Much appreciated, al. You wouldn't mind standing a little in front, would you?

 

[Adi007]

Good point ...

I try to look at kit as just tools. In some cases good tools help (a good map and compass for example) but for other kit, the difference between good kit and average kit is small if not none-existant.

The answer to what is the best tool is usually "the tool you have with you at the time".

 

[Jack]

I've recently been keeping my head down and reading rather than replying.


Big Jack.

No one can shoot you if you keep your head down! :AR15firin........

But on a serious note you have made some good points and rightly so, this forum is run by it's members for it's members. I think Adi has made some good points and yes, we can switch over and off at times and come back to it when things are more relevant to our own subject.

I believe kit, is just common ground, something we can all talk about.............a part from me, as I don't have any kit, well a part from a billhook or two but then I am a woodsman and not a bushcrafter and that's why I talk about them as that is what I love and it is what I do, it isn't any good for more to talk about bushcraft because I would just blow it!

I think this site really does cater for everyone's taste/taste's but it does do us all good to stop and reflect on it sometimes and you have done that so lets see what everyone else thinks..................now, someone pass me my shot gun!

Cheers and nice to see you back.

 

[Lithril]

I've gotta admit I'm a classic example of buying gear because "I just can't do without it" then still not actually using. Thing is with the internet its often easier to buy the gear then actually get out and practice and enjoy nature, especially when you take work/family etc into the equation. I'm definatley trying to make a concious effort to get out more now... although I'm absolutely certain that I absolutely can't go far without a hammock, now where did I put that credit card...... :-D

 

[Hoodoo]

I dunno Jack. When I read Kephart's Camping and Woodcraft, he's got enough kit in there to fill a semi trailer.

Ray Mears has enough kit on his website to start a sporting goods store.

The one thing I like about Mears is that he has a foot it both worlds, the high tech and the ancient arts. If you spend a lot of time in the wilderness, I think it's foolish to ignore either.

There are all types of wilderness out there that require low impact travel. That means more kit. Personally I'll buy the latest in high tech gear from silnylon tarps and tents to titanium pots, if it means I get out more. Backyard bushcraft is fun but getting out into the wilderness is where it's at as far as I'm concerned and if the only way to do that is to chip a rock to make a knife and weave my own cloth to make a sack to carry my nettle cordage, I ain't going to be getting out nearly as much.

 

[Raz]

I'm with Hoodoo.
For me, having good kit means never having to think twice about it, so I can spend more time out there.
There is a bewildering about of kit, and it would take a lifetime to buy and try everything until we find something that works for our particular use. Being a forum of like-minded individuals, we can get advice from experienced users, and the chances are that we can cut 90% of the faff that goes with trying/buying gear, and get the best thing, at the best price first time. Again, meaning we can get out more and just "do".
Kit is also ever evolving, and facilitates constant chatter. It’s common ground among us all. The nature of woodcraft means it doesn't evolve, most of what we need to know is already tried and test, in print, and excellently written!

 

[Stew]

Well done for speaking up!

New members frequently ask questions on topics that have been thoroughly explored in the past, which suggests that some reorganisation might be needed to put the more common topics into a series of more handy articles.

What did you have in mind? Something like the DIY articles in the 200' section?

 

[Adi007]

Often though, going over old ground can yield some interesting new discoveries ... some I can think of recently are the discussions about home made meths burners and titanium mugs vs the crusader mug. A while back we also had a great discussion about feather sticks that was interesting and informative too.

Kit is just so much easier to talk about than out personal experiences ... but this site is also an evolving thing and only just a year old ... who knows what the next 12 months will bring!

 

[boaty]

Kit is just so much easier to talk about than out personal experiences ...

Does Kath know you're having "out personal experiences"?

But I know what you mean - especially for newbies like me, I feel that something that was exciting and new for me wouldn't be of much interest to you old hands.

Like the first time I tried to use a firesteel and whatever tinder and kindling I could find to start a fire - made a bundle of the bits and bobs and one strike of the firesteel later I had flames! Seemed like a miracle!

 

[Roving Rich]

I agree with you big Jack. For me the ultimate bushcraft destination is being able to walk out the door carrying just a knife and live comfortably.(I have a loooooong way to go yet!)
The only way to get off this kit chatter current trend is to post Craft threads. Its our users that determine the course of things here, so lets get back to the practical stuff we enjoy by posting new threads on the subjects we like.
Kit wise I think i have all i need. It may not be the best but it does the job.
However if i didn't own a set of billie cans say, i would be seeking the advice of the folk here to buy the best first time. And avoid the lemons by learning from others mistakes. So some kit chatter is advantageous.

Old core questions will always come up again. It will be a sad day when they don't receive an answer, just a direction to a previous post. Something new comes out of them everytime, and it welcomes new users to the site with fresh information. I certainly wouldn't fancy trawling the extensive archive for answers when I can get a "live" answer. Though maybe we could do more to highlight the search facilities available.

I have always respected your opinion, and value your replies, so please stick with us and help steer us back onto the course you envisage.

Sorry for reiterating alot of what others have already said here, but i have to agree with most of what has been voiced.
Cheers
Rich

 

[Adi007]

I think that craft threads are a wonderful idea but I think that they are better if spawned by a general interest post or a question, otherwise it would be more of a tutorial post, which have their place but they are hard work to create and are kinda "closed" in that there offer little room for discussion.

Let's have more "How do I ...?" and "How did ...?" posts, and the best people to ask these are people who want the answer to the question! All I can say is that if you have a question, post it - there is nothign silly or stupid about asking a question, but there is in NOT asking it!

 

[Hoodoo]

But I know what you mean - especially for newbies like me, I feel that something that was exciting and new for me wouldn't be of much interest to you old hands.

The problem is that when you get too many "old hands" these topics come up less and less frequently. But when they do come up, there is usually always someone who is willing to take a stab at answering questions. But the onus is on the newbies to ask the questions. It's the newbies that will provide the impetus for keeping the basics fresh and new, even though they may seem old hat to many. Personally I enjoy talking about "the basics" as much as anyone but I'm not going to start a topic on "how to sharpen a convex edge" or "what's the best wood for a fire board" or whatever. I do what I can and if I can find a new wrinkle in an old theme, then I'm more than happy to start a ball rolling downhill.

At the same time, I don't think we should attempt to censure those who want to explore new gear. With a mindset like that, Calving Rutstrum would never have written "The New Way of the Wilderness" and Colin Fletcher would never have written "The Complete Walker."

I agree that enjoying the wilderness should not be about going into the woods just to test new gear, nor should it be about going into the wilderness just to learn how to start a fire by friction. In fact, many primitive bushcraft skills can be learned and practiced in your backyard or a local woodlot.

But I can tell you that at age 52, I'm deeply indebted to the ultralight backpack movement in helping me find lighter gear to make my trips in the backcountry still as enjoyable and as long as they were back when I carried 60+ lbs. And when I go into a wilderness area, my goal is usually not simply to learn primitive skills, although that might be a part of it. I'm there to enjoy the totality of it. It might be to fish, to bird, to study insect outbreaks, or whatever. Or it might be to find a good plant to make cordage. And whatever gear I carry is just a means to an end. If I plan a canoe trip, am I obligated to build a birch bark canoe first? Not hardly and the truth is, there ain't a helluva lot of people who actually can build one, let alone find the proper tree to harvest the bark. So will any old canoe do? I don't know about you but I'd much rather portage a 35 lb kevlar canoe than one of old Rutstrum's 75lb aluminum grumman canoes (which I have done).

The key to enjoying yourself in the wilderness, imo, is to be prepared enough so that you can enjoy the experience. I'm all for Nessmuk's "smoothing it." If Bushcraft is anything, it's the art of knowing how to enjoy yourself in the wilderness without destroying it. There are lots of ways to do that and blend the old with the new.

 

[Stuart]

I agree with everything above but the most important observation about this forum is that it is run by the members.

unlike a magazine or a TV programe what is in here is not decided by a company or a group of people in an office

every word is added by a member (we all sit around a vitual camp fire)
if there is to much talk of kit (somthing i talk about all to often) then its because that is what people are talking about (not because that what BCUK decided would be here)

If there are people who want to talk more about a wider variaty of subjects (which would certainly add the the information on the site)
then the people who feel this way must start threads about the things they wish to discuss


The forum is made by YOU if you want it to dicuss somthing you must add it

Also to answer the questions of new comers no matter how many time the same question has been asked before is to pass on information in return for what you have learnt

you must give as much as you recive, imagine if no one could be bothered to tell you how to light fire by friction when you first started to become intrested in bushcraft because they had answered the question before?

BCUK only controls the magazine you see on the home page, the forum although moderated to prevent bad behavour is constructed entirly by you

I'll stop ranting now :biggthump

 

[Wayne]

First Class thread. Thanks for the thought provoking ideas out lined above. I agree that bushcraft is more than kit. However I have made some costly mistakes in the past buying stuff that a simple question here would have prevented.


I look forward to reading more about peoples experiences and craft knowledge.

 

[the naughty boy]

kit, for some people is inspirational.when you cant go to the woods the next best thing is to sharpen your knives and axes or clean and polish your boots etc.youll find that the more you handle your kit ..the more your desire will be to be out there.thats why i enjoy reading about kit .
but i do have to agree with the initial point about tools taking preferrence over skill.its my view that the best teacher is the woodland its self,closly followed by expert knowledge shared herein.
after all its a viewpoint thing here ,isnt it?
ps good threads always prompt the most replys...well done