Dont batton with your knife

[santaman2000]

Some people go mad and baton all the way down a long log when they could easily use a wedge cut from a side branch to finish the job started by their knife.

However, for me the point about batoning is that you should be able to do it because you cant guarantee having an axe with you when you need one. This is especially true in the more survival oriented scenarios. Even if we are just on a happy stroll, it is often difficult to carry an axe without getting shot by an armed response unit......

So a knife would be easier to explain than an axe? Odd logic that.

 

[Neumo]

Batoning with a knife is one way of splitting wood job, but is not the preferred method in my book. An Axe or Froe is much better. I personally think that batoning with a knife, while a good thing to have as a backup skill, is over rated. To me it seems to be another American import of dubious merit as a principle method of splitting down wood, as some people over the pond are obsessed with it. Some over there will carry a big knife mainly for that purpose, from what I can tell as a 14" Bowie is not the best thing to carry for carving, skinning, trap making etc... You can also cut down trees with a knife, which is also not the best tool for the job, but again is something all of us should have tried at least once so we can use it as a skill of last resort if we need to... Not knocking our American cousins at all but the 'got big knife, must baton wood' theme is something I have come across a lot on you tube. A good axe/hatchet is worth much more when you have a lot of wood to split.

I have broken 2 Moras batoning things, so doing so regularly is not without risk. A few of times a year is one thing, whereas every time you make a fire is something else. The rule of 'do not baton anything more than 2/3rds of your blade length' has worked for me for many years. If you try to baton anything that is longer than your blade length then that is '50/50' chance of breaking your blade from my experience, if you are using your own knife.... Just my 2 cents.

 

[santaman2000]

Batoning with a knife is one way of splitting wood job, but is not the preferred method in my book. An Axe or Froe is much better. I personally think that batoning with a knife, while a good thing to have as a backup skill, is over rated. To me it seems to be another American import of dubious merit as a principle method of splitting down wood, as some people over the pond are obsessed with it. Some over there will carry a big knife mainly for that purpose, from what I can tell as a 14" Bowie is not the best thing to carry for carving, skinning, trap making etc... You can also cut down trees with a knife, which is also not the best tool for the job, but again is something all of us should have tried at least once so we can use it as a skill of last resort if we need to... Not knocking our American cousins at all but the 'got big knife, must baton wood' theme is something I have come across a lot on you tube. A good axe/hatchet is worth much more when you have a lot of wood to split.

I have broken 2 Moras batoning things, so doing so regularly is not without risk. A few of times a year is one thing, whereas every time you make a fire is something else. The rule of 'do not baton anything more than 2/3rds of your blade length' has worked for me for many years. If you try to baton anything that is longer than your blade length then that is '50/50' chance of breaking your blade from my experience, if you are using your own knife.... Just my 2 cents.

I'm an American and carry what ya'll would think of as "big" knives. Up to and including khukuris and machetes. But I ain't batoning with them.

 

[andyn]

I have been batoning with the same knife for the best part of 10 years, and teaching with the same 15 Mora knives for 5 years... Never have any of them been damaged due to batoning...you just have to do it correctly.

I have never seen anyone break a knife that wasn't due to misuse or improper technique. Goes for most other things too really.

 

[santaman2000]

I have been batoning with the same knife for the best part of 10 years, and teaching with the same 15 Mora knives for 5 years... Never have any of them been damaged due to batoning...you just have to do it correctly.

I have never seen anyone break a knife that wasn't due to misuse or improper technique. Goes for most other things too really.

I think some are arguing that batoning is and of itself misuse and improper technique. I won't go that far but I stand by my assertion that it's a technique that was invented as a solution to a non-exiting problem.

 

[David Morningstar]

It only needs to be explained if it is seen....

 

[Neumo]

I'm an American and carry what ya'll would think of as "big" knives. Up to and including khukuris and machetes. But I ain't batoning with them.

Wise words. Either of those can split wood much better, if the hands have sufficient skill & the round is not too big.

I think some are arguing that batoning is and of itself misuse and improper technique. I won't go that far but I stand by my assertion that it's a technique that was invented as a solution to a non-exiting problem.

That is very true & is at the heart of this debate. Hitting a knife a few mil thick with a much bigger baton will inevitably have it's limitations...

 

[ex-member BareThrills]

You can also just whittle the wet bit off the outside to get to the dry inside of a thinner stick.

You could but its a quicker job to quarter it and batton out the dry bit. Anyhow personal choice i guess Santa. All roads lead to Rome as they say.

 

[Toddy]

That is very true & is at the heart of this debate. Hitting a knife a few mil thick with a much bigger baton will inevitably have it's limitations...

I can drill a hole through a stone with a stick too.
It's technique; it's knowing and understanding what you are doing that makes either technique effective.

The baton is softer than the knife. All it is doing is giving added oomph to me pressing in hard with the knife. Cutting into the end grain of timber.
It can, and is, done with a penknife without damaging the penknife either. The helle polar knife I used is a stick tanged knife while most 'bushcraft' knives are full tang for extra robustness.

I cut up that half log with a small knife, and then made feather sticks with the same knife before I honed it. Note, honed, not sharpened. The knife didn't need sharpened, it was still in good order.

I batton to make small kindling, to find dry kindling from the inner wood of logs, to split out pieces so that I can make feather sticks or carving blanks.

I don't need an axe to do any of that, and I'm not lugging one around with me if I don't need to.
I admit I carry a laplander folding saw but while that happily cuts me the rounds I start from, there's no way I'm going to use it to cut down through the entire length of a log multiple times.

cheers,
Toddy

 

[Teepee]

No, no, no, no no! Your all wrong!

The correct way to split wood is with a spoon.

(It must be a full tang spoon though, none of this amateur plastic handled rubbish)

 

[tamoko]

Splitting wood with knife, probably one of the oldest technique, for some task you have much more control use knife then with ax.
This is interesting example, second video from top. Inuit build kayak use baton with his knife.
Building a Kayak: Part 1
http://bushcraftru.com/bushcraftrublog/?paged=2

 

[Toddy]

Splitting wood with a spoon.

I'm impressed
Yuri Gellar of Bushcraft

Tamoko, thank you for the links
Part one around the 15.20 mark to 16.30.....and they batton the knife with a stone !

cheers,
M

 

[British Red]

Of course you can baton a knife - in much the same way that you can undo screws with a butter knife because you lack the proper tool.

Its your tools and your time.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

It's a bad day when we all look to Hitler for advice eh?

 

[Toddy]

Of course you can baton a knife - in much the same way that you can undo screws with a butter knife because you lack the proper tool.

Its your tools and your time.

BR, it is the right tool; that's what we've been trying to explain.
It's not an axe, it's not used like an axe.

atb,
M

 

[Man of Tanith]

I wasnt gonna join in on this but meh why not

I have battoned with both full tang and sick tang.
None have broken despite me not knowing what I was doing when I started.
If I know I'm likely gonna be splitting a lot of wood I'll take a hatchet or in winter a small forest axe.
If its not so likely then I dont bother and if needs be use a knife to batton.

Its horses for courses I feel.

Obviously a froe is a much better idea but I'm unlikely to carry one of those in my pack

 

[British Red]

Nope its not Mary - the laws of physics and ergonomics say so - the logic of torque and leverage show how an axe or froe is a vastly more efficient tool. If you want a knife designed for splitting - you would design it differently - its really that simple. If you want to do it though - carry on - you aren't wasting anyones time but your own.

 

[copper_head]

It's a bad day when we all look to Hitler for advice eh?

Just one of those meme things, there is a 'hitler reacts' video for just about any subject.

Regarding battoning, I've never had any damage to my knife doing it. I can see how an axe is more appropriate for processing lots of firewood but I only take an axe when car camping so for the odd spoon blank or bit of kindling when out and about a knife is all I need.

 

[tamoko]

Of course you can baton a knife - in much the same way that you can undo screws with a butter knife because you lack the proper tool.

Its your tools and your time.

For Inuit in video, knife and stone was proper tool to build seakayak.
I think it is knowledge not tool define what you can make.

 

[Toddy]

Nope its not Mary - the laws of physics and ergonomics say so - the logic of torque and leverage show how an axe or froe is a vastly more efficient tool. If you want a knife designed for splitting - you would design it differently - its really that simple. If you want to do it though - carry on - you aren't wasting anyones time but your own.

No, it isn't. The bushcraft knife is the ideal, but others are perfectly useful and capable of the task.

The batton just forces the edge through the end grain (or splits along the grain, not across it) enough to allow the split to form. It's very precise, very controllable, but it doesn't process near as much timber as an axe can do.

It will break out very precise timbers (see the kayak making), and it allows someone to effectively break up a round without having to swing an axe with sufficient force to make sure that it doesn't bounce off the timber. It doesn't have near the same 'recoil' but it's a very effective method and it does not damage knives....if done properly. Bit like axes there

I can use a froe, but I have seen too many people struggle with the balance they need to achieve to use it. They don't get the bit about having to hold the froe in place enough so that the blow doesn't send it skiting off, but forces it into the timber. That's where the edge on the knife comes into it's own advantage.
If you can use a froe though, it's a blooming useful tool and it will split a lot of timber, but it weighs a blooming ton to lug around any distance.

M