1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Discussing prices in sales threads

Discussion in 'Suggestions, bugs and feedback about the site' started by andyn, Feb 7, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. andyn

    andyn Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Hampshire
    Hear Hear.

    In my experience, the community here tends to look out for one another.


    Anyway Martyn has admitted he made a mistake and based his judgements from experiances and rules on another forum.

    Hopefully the rules with be clarified then on Tony's return.

    Oh and, i'm not saying this is the case with this sale, but in response to your comment Martyn....Caveat Vendetor.
     
    bambodoggy likes this.
  2. ScottC

    ScottC Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    13
    Location:
    uk
    I'm not suggesting that Hjatlander was ripping anyone off? I'm being hypothetical. Hjaltlander has shown himself to be a decent bloke who has himself stated he has not been offended by the comments in the thread.

    Not everyone is as clued up with the internet though, especially if they are just starting out, how would you feel if you asked about what a decent knife is for a bushcraft newcomer and someone says "£20 for my 5 year old mora. Bargain!" and the membership is prevented from pointing out that it's a blimmin' rip off due to some rule that some are advocating being introduced.
     
  3. C_Claycomb

    Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,462
    Likes Received:
    550
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    I thought that it was the principle that was being discussed, rather than a specific instance.

    As for looking out for new members. Well, I can see where you are coming from. I have made some poor purchases where I didn't know to ask all the right questions and each occasion has been different. While I would have liked to be able to dial the clock back on those times, I never expected forum members to jump in and save me from my own impatience. I wouldn't have thought it was their job.

    When I have not been in a rush, I have been able to post questions and get feedback, do research and so on, before deciding what to buy and where to get it. I would think that it is in this area that the forums can help the novice by answering questions as they are asked, and by offering advice.
     
  4. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    staffordshire
    It's wrong, it needs saying and for those people who dont understand it, it needs explaining.

    It's only sad if it upsets you.
     
  5. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    staffordshire
    Scott, that comment is 90% invective 10% point. I'm asking you nicely to stop grinding the axe and reverse the ratio.


    Are you allowed to comment on ebay that a seller three lines down is cheaper? Are you allowed to go into Tesco's with a megaphone shouting that beans in Sainsbury's are half price? Are Tesco's ripping you off because thier beans are not half price too?

    We are grownups, we buy what we buy with the money we earn from where we want and we take the responsibility for it.
     
  6. C_Claycomb

    Mod

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,462
    Likes Received:
    550
    Location:
    Bedfordshire
    If someone is ASKING, then the membership is going to tell them what is good. There are many threads like that.

    If somone were to post in Members' Classifieds offering:

    "High Performance Mora bushcraft knife, as used on :notworthy Ray Mears :notworthy woodlore courses, bargain price of only £20"
    :lmao:

    it wouldn't be up to the members to post on that thread that its a swindle. In the above case it would be hard not to ROTFLMAO, and post as much :rolleyes: :lmao: but the best option would be to report the post and let the moderators decide whether such an individual should be allowed to stay :BlueTeamE

    In generaly though, if someone is daft enough to grab the first item they see, without researching or asking questions, that is their responsibility. After all the threads talking about people taking responsibility for their actions...not getting stuck on mountains without gear etc, isn't it strange to suggest that buyers need protection from buring wallet syndrome? :D
     
  7. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    staffordshire
    They probably will. In the meantime, unless you can convince me and the other moderators of the veracticty of allowing it, I remain convinced that there should be no undermining of sales threads and will continue to moderate accordingly.
     
  8. andyn

    andyn Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    2,392
    Likes Received:
    29
    Location:
    Hampshire
    What me personally?
    I don't mind either way Martyn. I'll go with the flow. Do whatever you see best.
     
  9. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    staffordshire
    No, not you personally, everyone generally. I opened this thread for discussion because what I believed was a generally accepted ethical priciple, seems not to be the case (generally accepted). The opportunity exists for people to argue the point.
     
  10. British Red

    British Red M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    25,491
    Likes Received:
    324
    Location:
    Mercia
    There are two views here and, genuinely, both are held from the point of view of trying to help others.

    1. It is the right of anyone in a free market economy for everyone to sell what they want at any price they wish provided the item is theirs, is legally allowed to be sold and is accurately described. I believe the proponets of this view are seeking to defend the sellers against any malicious "spoling" posts or ruining a sales opportunity. This I think is altruistic and seeks to protect a group of members

    2. The opposing view is that if someone is offering a product at what someone perceives a "high" price, that to put a post on to that effect provides information to potential purchasers to prevent them from paying "over the odds". This is also done with altruistic intention to protect a group of members.

    I don't believe anyone here sought to profit from their posting or was doing so maliciously, I believe they did so with the best of intentions - this included BOTH sides of the debate. I think many people feel affronted when criticisms are exchanged and both sides feel that they are acting for the good of others.

    As there are no guidelines, perhaps we should offer some positive suggestions as to what such a guideline could be. If there are several incopatible suggestions, Tony could pick the one he likes or even put it to a poll if he doesn't have a preference and let his members decide.

    I am minded both ways. I feel that in a makers forum for example, a maker should be allowed to charge whatever he wished - only the maker knows how much time and effort went into something. Its probably unique and only the maker can judge its worth.

    As for re-selling goods (new or used). I would agree that comments can inflame, hwoever a post with a link simply saying "also available here...." in the sole case that a new version of the item offered was available at a cheaper price (including s&h) would be fair enough and to the benefit of potential purchasers. I think its unsafe to compare used items as condition is so important. Its probably also unfair to judge how much cheaper a used one should be than a new one.

    I'm sure others may disagree but I feel that those safeguards would be equitable to all concerned

    Red
     
  11. mikesknives

    mikesknives Tenderfoot

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    cornwall
    definition of communism:

    people with nothing who are happy to share it with you.

    I haven't been in for a while and this is the first thread I dropped into, I'd heard the rumours that the place was going downhill and they could be right. I'm back of to blade forums for some peace and quiet.
     
  12. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    35,072
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
    Frankly, that was uncalled for, and added nothing to an already awkward thread but more ill feeling :(

    Toddy
     
  13. Bushcraft4life

    Bushcraft4life Settler

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Messages:
    859
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    London
    I strongly agree Toddy. No need to comment whatsoever.
     
  14. Simon E

    Simon E New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    275
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    3rd Planet from the sun

    Oh Foo! One lively thread and its going downhill? :rolleyes:
     
    tomtom likes this.
  15. mikesknives

    mikesknives Tenderfoot

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    cornwall
    ahh another we are free to say what WE like in threads but your not.

    It's true I'd heard rumblings that BCUK had become somewhat arguementative and wether it was bad luck or not the very first thread I drop into after coming back after about 6 weeks is a full on ding dong (at least thats how I see it).

    If I was at a show and I was showing someone a knife and you butted in and told them it was cheaper at another stall I would be physically upset. If you said nothing and they bought it they did so off their own back. But if you pointed out to them when they were away from my table then thats fair enough.

    Thats the point here, poking your nose in on any deal is bad form anywhere you go and most people know it.

    So it's alright for someone to shaft a sales thread but not OK for me to have an opinion about it.
     
  16. Martyn

    Martyn New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,252
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    staffordshire
    I was with ya Red, (good analysis BTW) right up to this point and then something in my gut lurched.

    Imagine you have just bought a brand new Karrimor rucksack for £80. You get it home, try it on and instantly hate it. So you put it on here for £80 inc shipping. The next post is someone saying "get it at xyz.com for £65".

    Does that honestly sit well with you? I appreciate you trying to mediate this Red, but I cant see how such a thing can be anything but bad for the place.
     
  17. British Red

    British Red M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    25,491
    Likes Received:
    324
    Location:
    Mercia
    Honestly Martyn, I would rather know in advance that I was charging more than someone could get if for elsewhere as I'd hate someone to feel I was ripping them off - I'd probably drop my price to less than a "new with tags" one - but thats just me I agree.

    To me, the sales on this forum are more like a "community add" or selling to a friend or neighbour - I'm more worried about making sure a bit of kit I no longer need gets used and a good home than getting the last penny I can for something - if I had something I wanted to get every penny I could from, I'd probably post it on E-bay which is an unashamed "sell as high as you can place" - nothing wrong with that in its place at all. I guess I see the member adds here as a bit more of a service to both parties - more of an "add on" than the main purpose of the forum.

    I'll be the first to admit I've sold a knife here for more than the new price elsewhere. I suspect Magikelly knew that though :D. Another member did put a humorous post on that it wasn't worth it which I took in good part (he also sent me a kind PM later btw).

    I duuno - I was trying to find a middle ground here in which members who want to sell to each other out could do so but also a foster that protective spirit which I see as a positively motivated intent

    Red
     
  18. Tadpole

    Tadpole Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2005
    Messages:
    2,842
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Bristol
    Communism is based on mutual cooperation, peace and justice instead of oppression

    I’m somewhat confused about this whole issue. Did Hjaltlander hide the fact that some of the books he was selling were both second hand and cost more than the published price at Amazon? No in fact he provided a link to Amazon. Were you to buy the book (any one of them) on its own, then most of the prices were what I would consider reasonable, considering he has the book and you don’t, and only he knows what he paid for the books in the first place. Were you to buy two or three, then like Amazon I’m sure that Hjaltlander and you could come to some arrangement privately via PM. I for the life of me can not see any attempt at subterfuge.
    This member was honest about his intent, can all the people attacking his post say the same? :confused:
    I can understand the complaints, were he freezing his nuts off behind a car boot trestle, trying to part you from your burger money. Everyone likes to think that there is a bit of too and fro in the asking price, start high bid low, meet somewhere in the middle.
    But he is not running a market stall, he was offering you a book, telling you the price he wanted for it, showing you what it looked like and where you could get it, other than his copy, if it were still in print. Added to that he was going to wrap it, pay the postage on it trot down to the post office and send it to you all for the price shown.

    In life there is a time and place for almost everything, at a fish market you haggle, at an auction you bid what you can afford, in the ‘fruit and veg’ shop you pay the price at the till, and when a mate is flogging his treasured stuff off to help pay for a move, you pay what is due, or not buy. You don’t haggle, you don’t try and shame or mock him in to giving you stuff for a pittance, or get your mates to brow beat him. It’s not nice to bully someone into something.

    If anyone has a burning issue with a price someone is asking, then PM the guy. Give the guy a chance to explain, or do like I do, think “too rich for my blood” and move on.
     
    george likes this.
  19. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    35,072
    Likes Received:
    1,370
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
    I do take Martyn's point about sales, but the forum is a social place full of an assortment of interested groupings and tentative friendships. Gossiping about prices and bargains is normal conversation.
    BcUK is not a commercially orientated forum, the Makers Market and the Classified sections are relatively small.
    I can't see *rules* about not discussing prices working to be honest. I do think a little gentle discretion would be a better way of dealing with matters, but that does mean that sometimes we'll have the occasional thread like this when we thrashout the pros and cons of certain opinions/ good manners.

    Tony has already laid out clear guidelines about caveat emptor,


     
  20. mikesknives

    mikesknives Tenderfoot

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    cornwall
    Nice to see it all worked out that way, didn't leave any room for human nature unfortunately.

    and I take it thats oppresive pricing policy i.e more than you could afford :p
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page