Discussing prices in sales threads

[dommyracer]

Well that may be the best suggestion on this thread so far. But it's worth noting that not everything is going to get a rule written about it. The absence of a specific rule on a particular subject does not mean we dont have an opinion on it.

I fully accept this. I moderate on another forum, and while we have a pretty clear cut set of rules, there are always things that crop up from time to time.

All you can do is try and make a measured judgment, often based on what would be best in the spirit of the forum, but never on personal opinion.

Being as there's a specific set of rules just for the Classifieds forum, maybe this is something that could be included in it, if administration agree.

The prices a seller wants for his kit has nothing to do with me and it has nothing to do with you. Either pay it, or dont. Your choice. That is a free market.

But when the thread contains several critical comments on a price, then peer pressure starts to force the seller to drop thier prices. That is unacceptable.

Isn't that part and parcel of a free market as well ?

 

[Too Much Kit To Carry]

Martyn,

I really do appreciate the work and effort everybody, mods and members, put into this wonderful forum and I have watched this thread with interest sadly

May I please ask, as this appears to be a completely open discussion, if you truly believe that you have acted buy your own quote: -

Moderators will use their judgement as necessary to help the forum run smoothly and to avoid any confusion.

I feel that this thread has been run far from smoothly.

I believe that the comments made by some members regarding price were not criticism whatsoever and as there are is no apparent rule they have the freedom of speech to comment.

The way this thread has been moderated has done nothing but create and unnecessarily bade vibe on the BCUK and I would suggest that it is locked and put to bed.

I would ordinarily not pass comment but I feel this method of moderation does the BCUK no favours whatsoever.

Phil.

 

[Martyn]

Isn't that part and parcel of a free market as well ?

No I dont think so. If something is being sold in the classifieds of your local paper, if you think it is too pricey I'm pretty sure you wouldn't ring up the seller just to harrang them over how much they were asking - and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't like it if it were done to you.

If you read back through the thread, it only took two peoples comments to pressure the seller to remove his asking price and change it to offers.

Incidentally, the classifieds rules say...

State clearly the cash amount and currency you would like for the item and state whether or not shipping is included.

It doesnt take much for someone to feel under group pressure and part of my job is to make sure that doesnt happen - it's wrong. When I see it happening I feel the need for unequivocal action.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Martyn,

I note that this behaviour warrants a mention in the portobello road AUP on British Blades, but doesn't on here. Given your obvious stance on this, are you not simply applying your own opinon here and not the local rule? I can see no evidence of pricing pressure and the thread seemed to be self moderating reasonably well - a balanced view was presented and no personal attack made. Even the man himself appears to take this view. I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could have predicted "bad form" and behaved accordingly.

 

[andyn]

I completely agreed with the reporter and feel very strongly that the price a person sets on thier goods is thier business and no one elses. If the price is too high, then the item will not sell and seller will probably drop thier prices. But when a bunch of people start ganging up on a seller, the seller is then under social pressure to lower thier prices and sell at below the price they wanted. This is absolutely out of order IMO. I think it's rude in the extreme, very, very poor form and warrants unequivocal moderation.

Martyn - i have no grudge about your first post. Heck i even appologised for my post.

But more to the point - my post, and Spoony's, broke no rules that are listed in the sites stickys. So to be threatened with a ban just because, In your opinion, it was "bad form" is, in my opinion, a damn sight worse.

If the post was not acceptable and no rule currently exists to say so, then it is a simple case of deleting the un-acceptable posts and PMing the person to explain why. Once all the MODs and Tony agree that the rule needs to stay in place make a public announcement that the change in rule has been made and update the stickys accordingly and nothing else needs to be said about it.

Perhaps hind-sight is an amazing thing for how people should conduct themselves on a public forum. But thats how I adminstrate the forums I look after.

Anyway....In response to your question though. No i don't see why expressing an opinion over a price for a listed sale is a big deal. If the seller disagrees then he sticks to his guns.

 

[Alex...]

Hi guy's

I'm still relatively new to this forum, but always like to have an input (and in this case it is part of my business).

Anyone can ask whatever price they want for an item. The simple laws of Supply and Demand apply as in every scenario.

I have bought three items from Hjaltlander, the first a saw, which I have not seen advertised cheaper (if you include P&P), a Thermarest which again is unlikely to be cheaper including P&P. I have also bought a pocket cooker which I however I have seen cheaper elsewhere (States import) but for the ease of convenience, just made practical sense to buy at the same time.

HOWEVER!

I dont think anyone should have their views censored or criticised. Sometimes things could be said better perhaps, but we all learn.

May I make a suggestion...

If someone is selling something that you think is over priced and perhaps exploitative then feel free to add a link to the same item at a cheaper price elsewhere. That way both the seller and the buyer can evaluate the price and either amend it, negotiate or go elsewhere to purchase.

This seems rather over heated. If you were in the pub and one of your mates said "I've got this for sale" and another said "you can buy it here for x amount cheaper" neither the seller or buyer would be critical. In all likelehood that would agree to do a 'price match'.

Can i just add that I am pleased with the items I have purchased from Hjaltlander at the price I paid. But i am still happy for people to recommend cheaper alternatives at any time.!

But then again I am a tight ****!

Alex



P.S. Ohhhh there's a swear filter on this!

 

[Martyn]

I believe that the comments made by some members regarding price were not criticism whatsoever and as there are is no apparent rule they have the freedom of speech to comment.

Two important things there, it's being discussed freely now isnt it?

Secondly, whatever freedoms you are given, are granted by Tony, this is a privately owned forum - like someones living room. You may have freedom of speech in the street, but when you go into someones house, you live by thier rules.

 

[brasst]

Two important things there, it's being discussed freely now isnt it?

Secondly, whatever freedoms you are given, are granted by Tony, this is a privately owned forum - like someones living room. You may have freedom of speech in the street, but when you go into someones house, you live by thier rules.

so what did tony say about it?

 

[Martyn]

No i don't see why expressing an opinion over a price for a listed sale is a big deal. If the seller disagrees then he sticks to his guns.

You see I know there are a lot of people who fiercly disagree and think that thier own sales thread is sacrasanct. I agree with that sentiment. Sales threads are not open discussion thrreads, they are adverts. They do not contain invites for general debate over the sellers prices.

Though I agree that this is worth debating. I was under the impression that the majority of people held the same view as myself, theat clearly isnt the case. So perhaps we should let this debate run and let Tony write a rule accordingly.

 

[Martyn]

so what did tony say about it?

Havent spoken to him about it. Last I heard he was in hospital.

 

[C_Claycomb]

All other comments aside. I agree that:

Sales threads are not open discussion thrreads, they are adverts.

I also think that

If someone is selling something that you think is over priced and perhaps exploitative then feel free to add a link to the same item at a cheaper price elsewhere.

is a lousy idea with the potential to create bad feeling between the seller and the "suggester" where none needed to exist. PM them by all means, or report the post.

Twice I have had deals/sales derailed by the intervention of a third party and it is definitely "not on". In one case I opened a thread offering goods for sale and another member, a dealer no less, stepped in and offered more models than I could AND offered to undercut me by such a margin that I couldn't compete. The second time someone was interested in buying something from me when another membered came in and offered it for free. I know those were extreme cases, but I was monumentally unimpressed.

It had never occured to me that there might be an arguement FOR coming in and telling potential buyers that the goods they are looking at might be over priced. That seems akin to standing in someone else's shop and telling people who come in that they can get all this stuff cheaper on the internet It may be true, and it may (possibly) educate all concerned. But that wouldn't make it acceptable; sure as hell the shop owner would be justified in telling you to desist or leave.

 

[ScottC]

Certainly not suggesting that this was the case in this instance, but how would you feel if you were a newcomer and was looking around for some kit to get you started, found a thread where the seller indicated he/she had some items which were at bargain prices, you snapped them up only to find that they were at inflated prices or at a price which was not consistent with it's used status and that the membership had an opportunity to point this out but were prevented to by the rules?

In one case I opened a thread offering goods for sale and another member, a dealer no less, stepped in and offered more models than I could AND offered to undercut me by such a margin that I couldn't compete

That is wrong, but it's not really the same as what is being discussed here.

Martyn does raise some good points but threatening to ban people at such a docile stage seems very strong, especially as not a week has passed since he was telling the membership they needed to 'lighten up'.

 

[Martyn]

Martyn,

I note that this behaviour warrants a mention in the portobello road AUP on British Blades, but doesn't on here. Given your obvious stance on this, are you not simply applying your own opinon here and not the local rule? I can see no evidence of pricing pressure and the thread seemed to be self moderating reasonably well - a balanced view was presented and no personal attack made. Even the man himself appears to take this view. I'm at a loss to understand how anyone could have predicted "bad form" and behaved accordingly.

You may be right. You are definitely right that I have looked at this issue in great depth on my own forums, discussed it with my own moderators and found them pretty much unanimous - and many of them are members here too. It may of influenced my attitude towards a subject, that in fairness hasnt really been discussed on here. BB has been running classifieds since the start, much longer than BcUK and as a result, my mental framework of "acceptable" and "unnaceptable" is tried, tested and pretty much set in stone. It may account for why I assumed this principle was in place for the general population here. Looks like that was a mistake.

However, I have read nothing which convinces me that chipping into someone elses sale is anything but rude ...putting it mildly. If we allow it, aside from the "common decency" aspect, what is there to stop someone from deliberately scuppering someone elses sale?

No, it's wrong.

 

[Martyn]

Certainly not suggesting that this was the case in this instance, but how would you feel if you were a newcomer and was looking around for some kit to get you started, found a thread where the seller indicated he/she had some items which were at bargain prices, you snapped them up only to find that they were at inflated prices or at a price which was not consistent with it's used status and that the membership had an opportunity to point this out but were prevented to by the rules?

Caveat Emptor.

 

[ScottC]

But s it morally right to hide behind witty latin phrases whilst the membership is being ripped off?

 

[Toddy]

Personally, I have been very fortunate in that when I showed an interest in an item, that was obtainable elsewhere at a much cheaper price, several members quietly pm'd me and let me know the true value.

No fuss, no bother, no hard feelings and no rip off either.

atb,
Toddy

 

[British Red]

Guys

Far be it from me to offer an opinion on the ethics of commenting or otherwise on prices (although as in many things I suspect nothing injurious or insulting was meant). My one observation would be that if there is a rule or a protocol in these things, it would be helpful to publish it in a "sticky" at the top of the thread and then everyone would be completely clear as to the expected behaviour and I'm sure would be happy to abide by it.

Red

 

[Simon E]

But s it morally right to hide behind witty latin phrases whilst the membership is being ripped off?

So we are all under contract to buy from this seller?


Look, its dead simple. If you dont like it, don't buy it. Nobody is under any obligation to inform the whole world of the cheapest cost for any given item at any time. That is up to the buyer, if they want something they can look around on the Internet and local and make a decision themselves, it is afterall, THEIR decision.

This sounds to me more of a gripe by tightwads that are not getting something for super cheap, get over it ***.

 

[Bushcraft4life]

Personally, I have been very fortunate in that when I showed an interest in an item, that was obtainable elsewhere at a much cheaper price, several members quietly pm'd me and let me know the true value.

No fuss, no bother, no hard feelings and no rip off either.

atb,
Toddy

Its a shame the same couldn't be done here. Hjaltlander had some items fairly cheap in my eyes and then not so cheap. Its an even bigger shame that things have had to escalate into the current situation.

 

[Martyn]

Guys

Far be it from me to offer an opinion on the ethics of commenting or otherwise on prices (although as in many things I suspect nothing injurious or insulting was meant). My one observation would be that if there is a rule or a protocol in these things, it would be helpful to publish it in a "sticky" at the top of the thread and then everyone would be completely clear as to the expected behaviour and I'm sure would be happy to abide by it.

Red

That's the problem Red, there is no rule. Moderators judgement applies. It was a mistake on my part to be so emphatic. It would also be nice if a mod could on occasion, make a polite request and have it accepted without the subsequent challenges.